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No Sparks... No Idea what to do... Topic is solved

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shihabafi
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Re: No Sparks... No Idea what to do...

Post by shihabafi » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:51 pm

Dmck wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:01 pm
I had this issue once and it was because I forgot to reconnect the ground wires on the back of the head. They sit on the back of the cam cover. There is also a ground wire under the intake manifold next to the lower bolt fastener on the bottom of the intake manifold, but I am unsure if that would cause a no spark coil.

Seeing you were messing with the pcv system going to the back of the engine area maybe you damaged that ground or moved it out of way to work?
Could you please show me a picture of where that ground would be on the intake? I don't remember touching too much on the back but the front is where I did most of my damage so I might've done some foolish work (as always). Thanks!

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Re: No Sparks... No Idea what to do...

Post by shihabafi » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:00 pm

Also, I haven't been able to find any diagrams of where the wires go before the ignition coil, so if any of you guys know where I could download one, I'd really appreciate it.

I know that when I tested the ignition coil with my multimeter I got 12v, and when I tried cranking it dropped to 10v. This is normal, right?

If it is, well then I'm completely dumbfounded.

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Re: No Sparks... No Idea what to do...

Post by Dmck » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:02 pm

If your coil is getting volts that opens up some possibilities.

But first here is location of ground wire under the intake. It's attached to the same wire bunch that connects to the thermostat temp sensor and the ac compressor, so follow the thermostat temp sensor wire down, use a mirror possibly to view without removing the intake manifold. You should be able to follow the oil dipstick to the general location of the ground wire.
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I would do this first, before removing the intake again... I would crank the engine until you get it to fall into the default timing position. To test this you will have to remove the timing belt cover. (You only need to remove one 12mm bolt to take off the main face of the timing belt cover) crank the engine until it falls into the default position. You may have to do this a lot if you have bad luck (you can also self crank the engine if you want, that's its own process). There are two etch marks in the cams sprockets that show when you are in default timing. Crank engine until it falls on the right timing. If the etch marks don't line up you have timing issues, but I doubt that happened. The etch marks will line up with the cut corners in the upper timing belt cover seen in picture below. etch marks in Picture below.
IMG_0252.JPG
Once you have the etch marks lined up from crank roulette or manually cranking the car, remove the distributor and cam sensor. (question: did you remove the spark plug wires from the distributor when you removed it last? Maybe you put them in wrong order?)

Remove the distributor and the cam sensor and make sure the router and cam sensor guide are in default positions. (I have put them in backwards) view pictures below to see default positions. I would remove the router and make sure the bolts that hold the cam sensor guide and the routers base cam plate are tightened down snug.
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If you remove both the router and the plate it rests on as well as the cam sensor guide you will see the end of the cams and both grooves in the end of the cams should be flat and lined up with the where the cam cover meets the head. See picture below. (Ignore yellow circles and just look at end of cam where router should be.. see how it's lying flat?) if both cams are lying flat, then the router and cam sensor guide should look exactly like pictures above)
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I have had that bolt under the router loosen up just from replacing the router, I have put in the router plate backwards and had my routers timing off, same goes for the cam sensor guide. Make sure all these things are lined up.

Also if you removed the spark plug and coil wires from distributor, let me know

I haven't had to deal with the wires of the coil yet, but if you are getting a charge through it I don't see how that would be the issue. Also make sure your battery is charged! It may be super low from all the cranking.
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erikv11
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Re: No Sparks... No Idea what to do...

Post by erikv11 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:30 pm

shihabafi wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:47 pm
...

If I'm not mistaken, the intake wasn't lining up properly when I was re-assembling it, I got 6 of the 8 bolts to go in, and the other two just wouldn't go (second one from the right on both top and bottom). I'm going to do a complete redo tomorrow (HOPEFULLY) and see what I missed.
Good observation - this is very common when the little bracket that holds the injector wires gets stuck under the edge of the intake manifold. Happens all there time. So give that a look. It doesn't explain the no-spark but you'll want to fix it, it can make the engine run rough and even throw misfire codes.

Also make sure the plug wires are in the right order (still doesn't explain no-spark, I know ...).
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shihabafi
'95 854 T5-R || m4.4 || 185k
'96 855 NA || 140k
'98 V70 || T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine || 275k
'06 S60 R || 145k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k, '98 NA S70 174k

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Re: No Sparks... No Idea what to do...

Post by shihabafi » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:40 am

I checked to see if my spark plug wires were okay/ in the right position, they are, I triple checked.

Also, when I was initially doing the PCV system, I noted that I didn't have a mounting bracket on the bottom right bolt. I'm assuming the previous owner removed it when they/their mechanic changed the PCV system.

I also lined up the timing belt (hardest part) and took off and inspected the distributor cap, rotor, and cam sensor. All were tight as rocks and looked like nothing happened to them...

Thank you guys so much for the help that you have given me so far.

Time for a redo?

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Re: No Sparks... No Idea what to do...

Post by erikv11 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:06 am

That all sounds pretty good. It's top right bolt on the injector wire bracket (not bottom right) but maybe yours is missing like you said.

Redo of the PCV is a lot of time investment but you will probably find something if you want to go for it. And you should be able to get all the manifold bolts in. Careful it is aluminum so the threads can damage easily.
'95 854 T5-R || m4.4 || 185k
'96 855 NA || 140k
'98 V70 || T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine || 275k
'06 S60 R || 145k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k, '98 NA S70 174k

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Re: No Sparks... No Idea what to do...

Post by Dmck » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:32 am

Another thing to try is remove the fuel rail. Leave all the injectors in. Lift up the fuel rail just enough were the injectors are out of the holes. Wrap every injector in a kleenex, unplug the coil... and then crank the engine. The Kleenex should get soaked with gas. Maybe no fuel injection happening?

Can you re confirm that if you pull the coil wire that goes From the coil to the distributor that there is a spark coming out of the end of that wire?

I'm still a little confused at where the no spark is first starting to show itself.

shihabafi
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Re: No Sparks... No Idea what to do...

Post by shihabafi » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:48 pm

I have no idea what to do. I mean, does anything look wrong here? All ground wires are connected...

How exactly do I check for sparks from the ignition coil wire? I'm not sure how to check the wire straight from the coil itself. I got new sparks yesterday just to see if that was my mistake, but they didn't even spark...

Well, what's my next move? I'm thinking it might be that Relay under the front fan shroud, the TPS, Lawnmower Syndrome (but that wouldn't explain no sparks...).

Does anyone have a diagram that shows the wiring for the ignition coil and the relays and sensors connected to it and everything? That might help, I could go one by one and cross everything off.
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dj_v70
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Re: No Sparks... No Idea what to do...

Post by dj_v70 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:05 pm

Need to test components to make coil fire.

I haven't worked on this area in 20 years, so, this might be wrong ...
With ignition on:
1)Plus side of coil should be 12V. It shouldn't change whether cranking or not.
2)Negative side of coil should be 12V (or maybe 0v).
3)Negative side of coil should have a fluctuating voltage while cranking (digital meters might give you something like 4V which is an average of the fluctuating voltage). 10V sounds too high to me.

If you have a working vehicle that has single coil, validate the above on that first! Report back on results of test.

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Re: No Sparks... No Idea what to do...

Post by Dmck » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:27 pm

Can you take a picture with the rotor exposed and the cam sensor off?

Does your intake manifold have this pcv tube exposed? Pic below

Did you Make sure to plug in your throttle sensor and erg sensors that lay under the vacuum tree?
IMG_0256.JPG

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