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tranny clunk

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xtwister
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tranny clunk

Post by xtwister » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:14 pm

I was sorta pushed into getting a 2001 v70 t5 for free.
All I knew was that it had a tranny clunk with low miles.
I took it as a second car and found out what I was in for. (financially) lol
It barely passed safety so its legal.
So the car has 170k km which is low for the year. I think it sat for awhile. Leather seats really dirty.
Car smells musty. But everything works besides the tranny clunk. No check engine lights.
I did replace the b4 servo cover and did a drain refill which reduced the clunk.

I guess my question is that your supposed to reset the tranny adaptives. I dont have the vida module yet.. Its been
ordered. Will the tranny adapt as I drive it for now periodically? Or should I park it till I get the vida so reset the adaptives?

Tranny: When I picked it up.. Slammed extremely hard between 2nd and 3rd: Outside temp was extremely cold.
servo and tranny fluid change. It reduced it by alot but still there. After driving 1/2 hour it shifts smoothly. Outside temp not as cold



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SuperHerman
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Re: tranny clunk

Post by SuperHerman » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:57 pm

Not sure what a tranny clunk is - but in the end of your post you mention hard shifting between 2 and 3. Are these the same?

For tranny clunk I would focus on your transmission/motor mounts.

For hard shifting, I would focus on your valve body solenoids. You may get lucky and some clean fluid will remedy the situation. I assume when you did your drain and fill you did not see any metal shavings or glitter showing a hard part failure. The standard fine crud on the magnet is fine. Assuming you did not - read on.

Your year is one of the first and most problematic for the V70 transmission - they made some changes to the valve body solenoids that lessened the internal particle build up which reduced their tendency to stick and gum up. It sounds like you have some sticky solenoids. If you want to try the fluid flush method to see if it clears up I guess it cannot hurt things.

Right now I would throw in 1/2 a bottle of SeaFoam Trans Tune and run it 400-1000 miles, assuming you can deal with the "clunk". Then do another drain and fill and put in the rest of the bottle. Run it until it smooths out or until you cannot live with the slamming. Maybe the solvent and fresh fluid will work. You are not going to see immediate results - the crud buildup is serious if the fluid was never changed. The added solvent will help. It is no magic bullet, but if you want to try why not.

Basically your valve solenoids have build up crud which causes them to stick. Once they have enough pressure on them they work, but you get the slam. If you do a search you will find videos on the valve body solenoids being repaired with the TransGo kit. You will see the man use a special drill bit (provided in kit) to clean out the crud which appears like black carbon. Once this is cleaned out of the bore the solenoid valve can move freely.

If you want to repair it correctly you can do a TransGo rebuild kit mentioned which allows you to service the valve body and solenoids. I have done this route a couple of times. Other route is to buy some Rostra Solenoids and swap them only. Many have gone this route with success. When I did my valve body repairs I did not see any excessive wear so I think a solenoid swap would have been just as effective and less work.

As for the adaptations, the transmission will slowly learn the new fluid is there, it just takes longer and can add wear. If you can live with it then driving it "smartly" (avoid slamming) it won't hurt that much. Doing an adaptation most likely will not make a difference - you need miles to get the fluid to do some cleaning. An adaptation reset can not adjust for sticking solenoids. Those are my thoughts based on having the issue and reading a bunch on it. Lots of guy and gals on here with plenty of expertise on the issue - they may have more information and/or thoughts.
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Re: tranny clunk

Post by EngineeringBloke » Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:05 am

For the musty smell in your car

Before my S60, I was given a Saturn by my mother-in-law. The car had been smoked in and being in it for more than a couple of minutes gave me a headache. My wife had it detailed at a local repair shop but the odor was barely diminished.

I did some research and found the following product. I applied it and it worked. There are instructions online (below) but basically spray the headliner, seats and carpet with the cleaner, then spray into the air intake outside at the base of the windshield with the A/C on, and leave the car closed up and running for about 5 minutes, then continue with windows open for 5 minutes. I think I did also spray all the hard interior surfaces too, but this was a long time ago. I did this process twice and the smell was gone.

This stuff is very good. It is biodegradable, non-toxic and effective. Worked on the kid's running shoes, too.

How to use:
https://www.nokout.com/Remove-smells-fr ... k-Out.html

https://www.amazon.com/Nok-Out-Odor-Rem ... B000O0FBJQ



xtwister
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Re: tranny clunk

Post by xtwister » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:07 pm

Thanks guys for the replies

SuperHerman: No there was no metal or anything that I could see when i did the drain refill. It looked like the fluid was changed not too long ago. If first started to come out brown and then turn reddish. Also it looked abit overfilled. I put the proper amount back in. Did the b4 servo cap change and flaring and slamming was reduced by alot. But still there.

When i did the safety the mechanic commented that he thought the tranny had been replaced at some point. He was pointing at a part number plate that was on the transmission near the dipstick area.

I took it on a 300km road trip today. After the tranny warmed up, it drove and shifted smoothly. Like you said that the pressure builds up and the solenoid(s) are no longer sticking. At this point I can step on it and feel the t5 power.

I'll try the seafoam trick to see if that helps.

EngineeringBloke: I'll look into that product. I'll first give it a cleaning. Steam clean the carpets. Try to clean the leather seats. Never seen back seats that looked so dirty. Maybe they had a dog or somehting. I've had volvo's before and leather always looked brand new (besides driver seat wear) The interior looks like it hasnt been cleaned in years.
I know what you mean with the musty smell giving you a headache. I had to put the window down a couple of times to refresh the air.



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Re: tranny clunk

Post by Rvolvos » Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:26 pm

SuperHerman wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:57 pm
Not sure what a tranny clunk is - but in the end of your post you mention hard shifting between 2 and 3. Are these the same?

For tranny clunk I would focus on your transmission/motor mounts.

For hard shifting, I would focus on your valve body solenoids. You may get lucky and some clean fluid will remedy the situation. I assume when you did your drain and fill you did not see any metal shavings or glitter showing a hard part failure. The standard fine crud on the magnet is fine. Assuming you did not - read on.

Your year is one of the first and most problematic for the V70 transmission - they made some changes to the valve body solenoids that lessened the internal particle build up which reduced their tendency to stick and gum up. It sounds like you have some sticky solenoids. If you want to try the fluid flush method to see if it clears up I guess it cannot hurt things.

Right now I would throw in 1/2 a bottle of SeaFoam Trans Tune and run it 400-1000 miles, assuming you can deal with the "clunk". Then do another drain and fill and put in the rest of the bottle. Run it until it smooths out or until you cannot live with the slamming. Maybe the solvent and fresh fluid will work. You are not going to see immediate results - the crud buildup is serious if the fluid was never changed. The added solvent will help. It is no magic bullet, but if you want to try why not.

Basically your valve solenoids have build up crud which causes them to stick. Once they have enough pressure on them they work, but you get the slam. If you do a search you will find videos on the valve body solenoids being repaired with the TransGo kit. You will see the man use a special drill bit (provided in kit) to clean out the crud which appears like black carbon. Once this is cleaned out of the bore the solenoid valve can move freely.

If you want to repair it correctly you can do a TransGo rebuild kit mentioned which allows you to service the valve body and solenoids. I have done this route a couple of times. Other route is to buy some Rostra Solenoids and swap them only. Many have gone this route with success. When I did my valve body repairs I did not see any excessive wear so I think a solenoid swap would have been just as effective and less work.

As for the adaptations, the transmission will slowly learn the new fluid is there, it just takes longer and can add wear. If you can live with it then driving it "smartly" (avoid slamming) it won't hurt that much. Doing an adaptation most likely will not make a difference - you need miles to get the fluid to do some cleaning. An adaptation reset can not adjust for sticking solenoids. Those are my thoughts based on having the issue and reading a bunch on it. Lots of guy and gals on here with plenty of expertise on the issue - they may have more information and/or thoughts.
This worked for me. Within 100 miles of driving no more cluncks during 3 to 2 downshifts. Ended up putting the whole bottle after draining out to much (500ml). This made the difference, had already drain and filled 3 times the transmission and did reset adaption, no improvement. 2005 V70 2.4 NA 140kmiles, never had the transmission fluid replaced. Thanks!
Solenoids are on the shelf for now.


2011 c30 T5 95k
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Re: tranny clunk

Post by SuperHerman » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:56 pm

Rvolvos glad the SeaFoam TransTune worked for you

For others - it is worth a try, but the earlier solenoids were updated so they flow freer (at least that is what I have read) so cleaning with a solvent would have better results. Just something to think about, but as I said, for $8 a bottle it is clearly worth a try.



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Re: tranny clunk

Post by xtwister » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:06 pm

I did another drain refill and put some more seafoam in. Transmission is still behaving the same when cold. When the tranny fluid is over 60 celsius it works smoothly. I determined the hard shift is on 4th gear. I did get the vida and tried to do adaptation but It looks like the software is too old on the car. It doesnt feel like I have start stop on it but I guess I'm not sure. The software starts with 86 and I think you need it to start with 94 for adaption?

My question is, can I go to the salvage yard and just get another tcm from a newer car and put it in or do I have to goto the dealer to get this one updated?
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Re: tranny clunk

Post by SuperHerman » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:48 pm

What you are saying does not make sense (don't take it personal) - Volvo updates their software as needed for bugs, improvements and similar reasons. When the software is originally released the dream and goal would be that it is perfect. Doing an adaptation would be required under the first version of the software through the last. It would make sense then ALL software should have the feature.

I think you are on the incorrect screen. I have not used VIDA, other than for instructions, in a long time. Hopefully someone with more recent know how can tell you how to reach the screen you want.

Maybe start a post asking the question how to get to the adaptation function and add that the issue you are trying to cure is a hard 4th gear shift (mentioning what you have done to date). I have seen on the forum members discussing it, so a search may help.



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Re: tranny clunk

Post by xtwister » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:52 pm

SuperHerman: Thanks for replying. I am on the tcm advanced where it says I can do CMA and when I try it, it says you need versions 94.. and mine says 86 (this is step 2) The wording isnt quite like that but wont let me pass. For step 3 adaption and reset fluid, it lets me but it doesnt go to the adaption process as described in vids and google searches.. It just says complete or something like that. I did have the trans temp level over 60 celcius when trying this. I did read that the software has to be at a certain level before you can use the adaption process. I dunno. Frustrated for sure.



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Re: tranny clunk

Post by SuperHerman » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:07 pm

Thinking about it based on your comments - what may be going on is your version of VIDA is "too new". If you had an earlier version, pre the last update then it should work.

This would make sense from a factory view point as they would want the latest software installed before having the adaptations reset. It would also make sense from what you are experiencing as well as offering the function when the car was originally released. Although this does not get you closer to a solution.

From what I understand, which is not much, of the software and the "fuzzy logic" behind it - it takes about 2-3 weeks of normal driving for the car to learn again. So, if your problem is in fact the old adaptations, the "fuzzy logic " algorithm should adjust on its own - it just will take longer.

How does the car behave when you manually shift it through the gears?

My gut feeling is you have a sticky solenoid that needs to be replaced or rebuilt - the solvents may never work to clean it up sufficiently. As the fluid gets warmer it gets thinner - so it can pass through more freely. That is how I look at it. Over time the solvent may clean up the build up, or it may not.

That said your options are try to drive around it with the manual shift until it warms up, assuming that works, until it clears up (if ever) or change out the solenoid(s). You want to avoid the slams as that causes wear.

If you are going to open it up I would do all three solenoids - if you are willing to rebuild the valve body that would be bonus (and about the same price as changing out all three solenoids). You are looking at about $150-200 in parts and fluids and some fun labor. Personally I would just open up the valve body and swap the solenoids and leave the valve body alone. The hard work is getting to them - swapping them out is pretty easy.

If you do the three solenoids you will still be faced with the adaptation issue or you can let it work its way out.

Finally, if you call and ask the dealer or do some digging, you should be able to tell what software version addressed the start/stop issue.

Last thought - pick your poison on whether you want to buy a used TCM (not sure if it has to be married to your car and if the one you bought is also up to date (leaving you in the same spot)) or have the dealer load the latest software in the car so you can do the adaptation yourself as it most likely will not fix your issue. Alternative change out the solenoids and then if you are not happy do the adaptations. Assuming the worst you will have to do the adaptations twice if the first go doesn't fix it and then you have to change out the solenoids as you will have to do it again. If you do the solenoids first it may cure the problem and you can let the car sort out the shifting. From my experience doing the adaptations didn't change much - I did it once because I thought it was neat - the second car I just left it alone. Yes you will see a difference, but because of the "fuzzy logic" the car will change more and end up where it was before, pre-slamming. It is learning your driving style and terrain - so unless that has changed ultimately it will get to the same place.



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