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Mineral based oil or Synthetic?

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Mineral based oil or Synthetic?

Post by Mr. Detail » Thu May 23, 2019 7:04 am

Sorry to ask this simple question but I want to insert the correct motor oil on my next oil change coming up soon.
I have the B5244S engine (non-turbo) on my 2002 model V70. I believe I have read that the 5W-30 will be fine for
my region (not hot except for summer) but should I buy mineral based or synthetic?



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Re: Mineral based oil or Synthetic?

Post by oragex » Thu May 23, 2019 11:59 am

You may find some answers here. It is mostly up to you, synthetic change interval can be stretched longer, but there are a few things to be aware of www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGU-f1MA-VY . I also recommend using a quality filter, such as Mann


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Re: Mineral based oil or Synthetic?

Post by amblerman » Thu May 23, 2019 5:15 pm

Oh boy.. asking about what the right type of oil is... that's a dangerous question.. :D

I just watched that video and that is a very good introduction and summary of oils. I do want to mention a few things about what was said in the video and some over all opinions/information that I have learned about oils over the last few years.

Short answer: Good video. In PA, use any readily found 5w-30 that meets SN or SN+ you find in the store from a major manufacturer and you'll be fine.
Longer answers: see below

1) The Castrol 0w-30 mentioned in the video has quite a following. It's a bit hard to find in the US in stores. I've never actually seen it in a store but have seen the 0w-40 also mentioned at the end of the video. As stated, it is made in Germany vs the 5w-30 and 5w-40 Castrol synthetic easily found in stores here in US. The 0w-30 used to be made in Belgium and had a green hue. I wanted to try that just to see the color.

2) "Synthetic" oil..
The term "Synthetic Oil" is almost completely useless here in North America. It doesn't mean what you probably think it does. It's mostly (but not quite) a marketing term at this point. See "Full" section here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

When you buy a bottle of motor oil, what you are getting is a combination of base oil stocks plus various additives.

base oils used to make what ends up in the bottle are classified by their group number. 1,2,3,4,5 (usually written in Roman numerals).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_oil

True full synthetic oils should be fully based on group 4,5 base stocks (PAO ester, etc).

Most of the synthetics you find in Walmart (Mobil, Pennzoil, Castrol, etc) are mostly group 3 with some group 4/5.

Notice I'm using words like "mostly" and "some"? No one knows what % of different kinds of base stocks are used. Manufacturers don't publish that.

3) Semi-synthetic oils
In the video, semi-synthetic oils were mentioned. I used to use those a lot but I now pretty much avoid them. I don't avoid them because they are bad. I avoid them because there is no way to tell what %s are used for the conventional vs synthetic oils used in the bottle.
What is the ratio of conventional to synthetic? 50/50, 10/90,90/10? no idea.
The reality is most synthetics or even conventional oils are a blend at this point anyway. They just different in what they are a blend of.
Although you can't tell for sure, I believe the cheaper semi-synthetics or synthetics are probably a blend of group 2/3 base stocks while the more expensive are a blend of group 3/4/5 base stocks. With the most expensive having the highest percentage of group 4/5.
However, since I don't have a way to actually measure that, I cannot prove this. Keep that in mind.....

4) Extended drain intervals.
In the video it was mentioned that one advantage to synthetics is they can allow for an extended oil change interval (OCI).
That could be true depending on region, temperature, engine type, driving habits, etc.
There are people out there (and car companies that recommend) doing OCIs in the 10K,15K, 20K mile range.
If you wanted to try that you would be best served using one of the oils designed for that.
I believe those oils would have a higher percentage of the group 4/5 base stocks compared to the cheaper synthetics.
For example, Mobil1 has at least a dozen different types of synthetics. One such variant is Mobil1 Extended Performance which is geared towards supporting longer OCIs vs their regular Mobil 1.

I do not do long OCIs so I don't even worry about that. I generally change oil 2x a year which works out to about every 5,000 miles.

5) Specifications. (Not mentioned in video unless I missed it)
Over and above the oil weight, there is also a specification. This isn't really an issue for you as all modern oils from major manufactures meet and exceed what your engine called for in 2002.

Your owners manual said "Meeting minimum ILSAC specification GF-2, including ACEA A1, API SJ, SJ/CF and SJ/Energy Conserving. Your Volvo V70 has been certified to standards using ILSAC oil specification GF-2 5W/30."

Here in the US the relevant parts of that is the SJ parts. (where S = Spark Ignition and J = revision (A,B,C,D,etc))
Most oils sold now SN or SN+ so it's all good for your 2002.


What do I use in my 1999 S70 non-turbo?
Well I owned it since about 112 K.
Here is the oil history
112K - 114K: What ever was in the car when I got it + random top off oil from my oil stash because it was leaking/using oil.
114K-119K: Mobil Super (conventional ) High Mileage 10w40 + random 5W40 as top off (Probably older Rotella 5w40 from my long gone VW TDI
119K-123K: Same as previous.
123K-now: Mix of 5 qts Mobil1 Synthetic 5w30 + 1 qt of Mobil 1 Synthetic 10w40.

How did i choose these oils? Price. At various times a year or due to random price mistakes on Amazon/walmart I can get very cheap oil. Usually clearance time at end of the year or with rebates.

I happen to have a stash of oil that will last me years into the future and it's a mix of brands but is all "synthetic" at this point (ie the fake synthetic that is mostly group 3 oils)

I am not loyal to one brand and often mix brands/weights when filling my car. I realize that some people do not like to mix/blend oil from different manufactures or weights. I don't think I'm smarter than the people who created the product. I mix brands/weights just to use up left over oil I have.

All questions and comments are welcome.

[Edited to remove vague information about the makup of Redline and Amsoil oils. I'm not a chemist and I don't have verifiable information on their makeup so I'm removing what I wrote. ]

-A
Last edited by amblerman on Thu May 23, 2019 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Mineral based oil or Synthetic?

Post by June » Thu May 23, 2019 6:02 pm

If the bottle says 100% synthetic it is 100% group 4 or 5 PAO or esters or combination of the two, but cannot have any petroleum (group 2 or 3) in the product. It is clear on the judicial ruling in the 1999 Mobil vs Castrol lawsuit. So if you are looking for Synthetically made product, look for 100% Synthetic on the bottle.

The Redline 5W30 oil I use in my S80 T6 is 100% ester according to Redline. So if you are considering going 100% Synthetic do your homework first.

If I were you I would use Castrol 5W30 GTX dino non-synthetic during cool months and 10W30 GTX during the summer and change it every 3 months or 3,000 miles with a cheaper filter if you are worried about money. You have a NA engine so Synthetic is not necessary as long as you keep it changed. In my opinion. My Volvo dealer charges $60 for a GTX oil change so 4 a year is $240 a year and no hassle, but cheap insurance against PCV, VVT, or ring troubles! June


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Re: Mineral based oil or Synthetic?

Post by abscate » Thu May 23, 2019 8:00 pm

Run mineral for 5000 , synthetic for 7500

Run a oil analysis , about $20 , to see how used up the oil is, then you can decide you’re balance of cost, convenience , economy based on your data, not anecdata.


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Re: Mineral based oil or Synthetic?

Post by oragex » Thu May 23, 2019 8:50 pm

Protecting the PCV is another good reason to go synthetic on these cars, although the PCV would need replaced anyway by this time - a quick 'glove' test is a good move while there (youtube)


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Re: Mineral based oil or Synthetic?

Post by 93SCMax » Fri May 24, 2019 5:29 am

oragex wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:50 pm
Protecting the PCV is another good reason to go synthetic on these cars, although the PCV would need replaced anyway by this time - a quick 'glove' test is a good move while there (youtube)
I've run Mobil 1 5w30 synthetic since my 1st oil change 18 years ago. Change it every 7,500 miles with a Volvo or Mann filter. I have not needed to do the PCV service yet as I pass the glove test every time I check it. That alone is reason enough for me to spend the extra few dollars up front on synthetic.

I'd recommend against going back and forth between synthetic and dino oil due to potential issues with seal conditioning and potential leaks.

Of course, there is no right answer to your question, only a matter of preference per owner. Good luck.



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Re: Mineral based oil or Synthetic?

Post by Mr. Detail » Fri May 24, 2019 5:56 am

Thanks everyone for your detailed responses. Here is a follow up question. What is a "glove test"?
It states on a maintenance schedule for my year "2002" to inspect, clean the nipple and hoses on Turbo models only every 150k miles. Even though mine is a N/A car, it does have over 155k on her now.



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Re: Mineral based oil or Synthetic?

Post by oragex » Fri May 24, 2019 6:32 am

Search on Youtube with these exact words, the 'glove' (you can also use some wrap foil) must suck in quite strongly. The n/a also has a PCV, only it's simpler to replace (and cheaper parts too, off fcpeuro.com)


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Mr. Detail

Re: Mineral based oil or Synthetic?

Post by Mr. Detail » Fri May 24, 2019 9:11 am

How about this dealio with FREE shipping?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Castrol-EDGE ... /947430152



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