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2009 V50 Automatic Transmission 'Power Reduced' Issue

Help, Advice, Owners' Discussion and DIY Tutorials devoted to the second generation C70, S40 and V50 Volvos -- awkwardly model year 2004 Β½ onwards -- plus where to go for advice and discussion on Volvo's sporty C30 Coupe powered by Volvo's ubiquitous inline 5-cylinder power plant.
GaryNuman
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2009 V50 Automatic Transmission 'Power Reduced' Issue

Post by GaryNuman » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:38 am

Hello Forum Members,

This is my first post and sorry for the length. I've been reading this site for years and it's helped incredibly with my Volvo ownership and I thank everyone. This time, I come with something I (and the mechanics in my city) just can't figure out.

Recently I swapped Volvo's and purchased a V50 2009 2.0D automatic. It's currently at 235k on the clock. I bought it second hand at about 210k. Immediately I changed the distribution, injectors and DPF (distribution and injectors are authentic and the DPF is not authentic though made in Czechia and meant to be the best cheap DPF that exists... I just can't afford a real DPF). When I bought the car it did have the DPF light on... after changing it I haven't had an issue with that or the engine. Engine seems very fine and the mechanic has tested it with his laptop while I drive around and it acts how it's meant to.

In the last 15k traveled the car has been giving a 'transmission power reduced' error. I don't know the exact translation as it's in German. When this happens it's typically the first time in the morning I've started the car and very soon the car makes a thud and then normally it's stuck in gear – though sometimes the car continues to change gear but I've lost the reverse. This only happens at low speeds (20-25km/h) either when I'm accelerating or sometimes (though much rarer) when I'm decelerating/braking. I also think road conditions have something to do with this as it's much more common for this to occur when I'm on rough/heavily undulating concrete or bitchumen – and I can't remember this happening on a gravel road though... surprisingly there aren't many gravel roads where I live. Restarting the car fixes the problem but sometimes if I continue to travel at a low speed and a gear change is coming the same thump occurs.

The engine light comes on when I start the car (though only sometimes – maybe half or less of the time) and the warning telling me to book for service but not all the time.

The car gives good power and I don't need to rev high for it to change gears and there is no loss of power even when the 'transmission power reduced' error appears. When I drive around at +30km/h I've never had a problem ever and it drives like new. And, every time I've had the car at the mechanics garage it behaves itself and to get there it's a 15km drive (maybe by this time the car 'sorts itself out'?) And I experience as the car is driven more for the day the less likely this problem comes up.

I think the transmission is due for service but... is it just that? Could it be an electrical fault, wheel speed sensors?

The last general service oil etc. was at about 228k.

Regards,
Gary

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Re: 2009 V50 Automatic Transmission 'Power Reduced' Issue

Post by RickHaleParker » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:41 am

You need to get the DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code).

It does sound like you got problems with one of the Shift solenoids but until you get the DTS(s) .... it is all guesses.
--------
Platform: P80 1998 C70, B5234T3, 16T, AW50-42, Bosch Motronic 4.4, Special Edition package, Plant: Uddevalla Sweden.
Platform: X40 (Nedcar) 2003 S40, B4204T3, 14T twin scroll AW55-50/51SN, Siemens EMS 2000. Plant: Born Netherlands.
Platform P2 2005 XC90 T6 Executive, B6294T, 4T65 AWD, Bosch Motronic 7.0, Plant Torslanda Sweden.
Platform P2 2004 S60R, B2524T4, AW50/51 AWD, Bosch Motronic 7.0, BorgWarner K24 turbocharger, Plant Ghent Belgium.

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Re: 2009 V50 Automatic Transmission 'Power Reduced' Issue

Post by GaryNuman » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:00 am

RickHaleParker wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:41 am
You need to get the DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code).

It does sound like you got problems with one of the Shift solenoids but until you get the DTS(s) .... it is all guesses.
Hi Rick,

Today I took the car to a mechanic that's more specialised in transmissions. In driving there, after about 1km the transmission fault occurred and I had to stop and restart as it wouldn't shift up. After this, all the way there nothing happened, it drove great. While at the mechanic he spent about an hour stop and starting and driving and surprise surprise he couldn't get it to fault and there was no history of the fault. However, he said there is an issue as the hydraulic pressure is giving high and low warnings when driving and also stationary and also there is a problem with the wheel sensors. There is also an oil dilution error. On top of that the DPF sensor has something wrong (which was changed only about 6 months ago). He's keeping the car overnight to give it a run in the morning to catch it fault (which I'm sure he will).

The mechanic admits this is very strange - the car drives great and the gear changes are perfect but all the readings from the sensors are awful. He said it could be a number of reasons... could be electric/electronic (though he said it obviously needs a transmission service he wants to see it fault first to be sure).

So, I have a basket of fragile eggs... this kind of reminds me of when Mr Burns on the Simpsons has all the ailments but they are in a symbiotic relationship so as to keep him alive - this is the current state of my Volvo.

Regards,
Gary

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Re: 2009 V50 Automatic Transmission 'Power Reduced' Issue

Post by RickHaleParker » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:32 am

GaryNuman wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:00 am
but all the readings from the sensors are awful. He said it could be a number of reasons... could be electric/electronic (though he said it obviously needs a transmission service he wants to see it fault first to be sure).
Poor voltage regulation will do that.

Can you get a printout of the codes he found?
--------
Platform: P80 1998 C70, B5234T3, 16T, AW50-42, Bosch Motronic 4.4, Special Edition package, Plant: Uddevalla Sweden.
Platform: X40 (Nedcar) 2003 S40, B4204T3, 14T twin scroll AW55-50/51SN, Siemens EMS 2000. Plant: Born Netherlands.
Platform P2 2005 XC90 T6 Executive, B6294T, 4T65 AWD, Bosch Motronic 7.0, Plant Torslanda Sweden.
Platform P2 2004 S60R, B2524T4, AW50/51 AWD, Bosch Motronic 7.0, BorgWarner K24 turbocharger, Plant Ghent Belgium.

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Re: 2009 V50 Automatic Transmission 'Power Reduced' Issue

Post by GaryNuman » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:03 am

RickHaleParker wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:32 am
GaryNuman wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:00 am
but all the readings from the sensors are awful. He said it could be a number of reasons... could be electric/electronic (though he said it obviously needs a transmission service he wants to see it fault first to be sure).
Poor voltage regulation will do that.

Can you get a printout of the codes he found?
Hi Rick,

The mechanic sent me through the codes for when the transmission fault occurred. He didn't send me anything else (with regard to wheel speed sensors or DPF sensor or other weird things though I will ask him for those too). I mentioned to him that I have a Volvo friend in the USA that said poor voltage regulation can be the issue and the mechanic said that he had checked the voltage and amperage and they looked good... though he said the voltage regulator could be defective and it could cause these issues - so he will check that on Monday or Tuesday before going further.

TCM-05B3 Hydraulic Pressure Solenoid, Clutch Even Gear, Hydraulic Pressure Low
TCM-05D2 Multi-function Solenoid, Clutch Pressure/Cooling Even Gear, Hydraulic Pressure High
TCM-05A3 Hydraulic Pressure Solenoid, Clutch Odd Gear, Hydraulic Pressure Low
TCM-05C2 Multi-function Solenoid, Clutch Pressure/Cooling Even Gear, Hydraulic Pressure High
TCM-0421 Shift Fork 2 Blocked, Other Shift Forks Didn't Move

The mechanic didn't say anything about what this means and I don't want to guess what it means if voltage regulation isn't the issue. Could you please have some input?

I only found one post on the Internet with regards to TCM-05B3 & TCM-05A3 that was for a 2009 Volvo S40 Automatic that started to get these errors after the owner changed gearbox oil and filters (I'd never do that myself and as far as I know no work was done to the transmission since purchase of my V50). The DIY owner said after that he took it to the Volvo dealer, β€œthey have updated the software, reset the parameters of the gearbox, checked the bonding leads, checked out the battery and they have driven over 500km but fault will not reproduce for them to read fault codes.” I don't know if that helps or means anything in this situation.

I found some other possible threads on another Volvo forum via Google search but I can't read the threads as that Volvo forum blocks Romania.

Have a good weekend and best regards,
Gary

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Re: 2009 V50 Automatic Transmission 'Power Reduced' Issue

Post by RickHaleParker » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:07 am

GaryNuman wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:03 am
I only found one post on the Internet with regards to TCM-05B3 & TCM-05A3
Yes wait until the voltage regulation is confirmed as working.

One thing common to all five TCM DTCs is: Low hydraulic pressure or perceived low hydraulic pressure.
  • Low oil level.
    Damaged pressure sensor.
It could be as simple as needing a transmission fluid and filter change.
A friend's Ford Galaxy did this back in the 70s. One minute fine next minute nothing. Changed fluid and filter then it was fine again.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TCM-05B3 Hydraulic pressure solenoid, clutch even gears. Hydraulic pressure to low, D4204T, MPS6

Diagnostic trouble code (DTC) information TCM-05B3

Condition
The transmission's mechatronic unit includes solenoids that control and adjust hydraulics in the transmission. By controlling the hydraulic oil's pressure and flow, the solenoids can control the transmission's cooling of components, as well as control which clutch pressure and torque to be used.
The diagnostic trouble code (DTC) is stored if the control module detects that:
  • The measured hydraulic pressure for clutch 2, even gears, is lower than the requested.

The control module's test for the diagnostic trouble code (DTC) starts in the event of:
  • Driving.
Note! The control module can only detect the fault once the test has been started and the diagnostic trouble code (DTC) is stored when the conditions are met.

Substitute value
Failure reaction 14.2.
For more information on fault reactions in the transmission control module (TCM), see: Malfunction reactions

Possible source
  • Low oil level:
    Damaged pressure sensor.
    Damaged output step, solenoid CSPS2.
    Solenoid CSMS2, for clutch pressure, is damaged.
Fault symptoms
  • Warning lights and chimes/Malfunction Indicator Light ("Check engine" light) indication/no indication
    Text window and warning symbol/Yellow symbol and text message
    Automatic transmission/Gear changes take too long to complete/Unsure when/at all times
    Automatic transmission/Shifts occur too early, too late, too often/Unsure when/at all times
    Automatic transmission/Shifts rough or jerky/Unsure when/at all times
    Automatic transmission/No automatic gearshift
    Automatic transmission/No forward/reverse movement in gear
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TCM-05A3 Hydraulic pressure solenoid, clutch odd gears. Hydraulic pressure to low, D4204T, MPS6

Diagnostic trouble code (DTC) information TCM-05A3

Condition
The transmission uses a hydraulic oil to get the pressure that is required to control both clutches. Transmission control module (TCM) uses a hydraulic pump and solenoids to control the hydraulic pressure that is used to control the clutches. Transmission control module (TCM) uses a hydraulic pump and solenoids to control the hydraulic pressure that is used in the clutch.

The diagnostic trouble code (DTC) is stored if the control module detects that:
  • The measured hydraulic pressure for clutch 1, odd gears, is lower than the requested.
The control module's test for the diagnostic trouble code (DTC) starts in the event of:
  • Driving.
Note! The control module can only detect the fault once the test has been started and the diagnostic trouble code (DTC) is stored when the conditions are met.

Substitute value
Failure reaction 11.2.
For more information on fault reactions in the transmission control module (TCM), see: Malfunction reactions

Possible source
  • Low oil level:
    Damaged pressure sensor.
    Damaged output step, solenoid CSPS1.
    Solenoid CSMS1, for clutch pressure, is damaged.
    Damaged valve CSM1, which leads the pressure between clutch and shifting.
    Damaged temperature sensor.
Fault symptoms
  • Warning lights and chimes/Malfunction Indicator Light ("Check engine" light) indication/no indication
    Text window and warning symbol/Yellow symbol and text message
    Automatic transmission/Gear changes take too long to complete/Unsure when/at all times
    Automatic transmission/Shifts occur too early, too late, too often/Unsure when/at all times
    Automatic transmission/No automatic gearshift
    Automatic transmission/Shifts rough or jerky/Unsure when/at all times
    Automatic transmission/No forward/reverse movement in gear
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Malfunction reactions

This document is intended as a guide to understanding how symptoms occur when generating diagnostic trouble codes (DTC).


If the Transmission control module (TCM) discovers a fault the control modules can take a number of actions, failure reactions. The failure reactions taken depend on the type of fault that has occurred. The reason for this, is that no fault must be aggravated, driving characteristics are not to be impaired and so the transmission does not mechanically fail. Each diagnostic trouble code (DTC) has a failure reaction that describes how the Transmission control module (TCM) processes the fault that has occurred. 0 is used for diagnostic trouble codes that do not require a failure reaction.


Explanations:
Gear groups = division of the odd and even gears.
Drive circuit, also known as power unit = there are 3 which provide the power feed to the solenoids in the hydraulic system.
Open loop controlled = through this a gear selector fork is moved with 80 Nm forward and back to the end position to ensure Neutral.



Failure reaction 11.2:
  • Failure reaction is used if it is not possible to apply pressure on the coupling.
    - Deactivates CSPS1 and activates CSMS2 for shifting (deactivate odd gears).
    - Blocks the odd gears and does not use the engaged odd gear. Blocks the even gears except the engaged even gear.
    If the fault counter is below a calibrated level.
    - Tries to disengage the odd gear if an odd gear is engaged.
    If it is possible:
    - Makes the valve cleaning function possible.
    - Increases the fault counter.
    - After that, activates the odd gears again.
    If it is not possible:
    - Does nothing.


Failure reaction 14.2:
  • Failure reaction is used if it is not possible to apply pressure on the coupling.
    - Deactivates CSPS2 and sets CSMS2 for shifting (deactivates even gears).
    - Blocks even gears, even neutral, and blocks the odd gears except the one engaged. Does not use the even gear engaged.
    If the fault counter is below a calibrated level, no gear is engaged and if the hydraulics are not damaged:
    - Makes the valve cleaning function possible.
    - Increases the fault counter.
    - Then, activates even gears
    If it is not possible to engage the even gear, does nothing.
--------
Platform: P80 1998 C70, B5234T3, 16T, AW50-42, Bosch Motronic 4.4, Special Edition package, Plant: Uddevalla Sweden.
Platform: X40 (Nedcar) 2003 S40, B4204T3, 14T twin scroll AW55-50/51SN, Siemens EMS 2000. Plant: Born Netherlands.
Platform P2 2005 XC90 T6 Executive, B6294T, 4T65 AWD, Bosch Motronic 7.0, Plant Torslanda Sweden.
Platform P2 2004 S60R, B2524T4, AW50/51 AWD, Bosch Motronic 7.0, BorgWarner K24 turbocharger, Plant Ghent Belgium.

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Re: 2009 V50 Automatic Transmission 'Power Reduced' Issue

Post by GaryNuman » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:43 am

RickHaleParker wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:07 am
GaryNuman wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:03 am
I only found one post on the Internet with regards to TCM-05B3 & TCM-05A3
Yes wait until the voltage regulation is confirmed as working.

One thing common to all five TCM DTCs is: Low hydraulic pressure or perceived low hydraulic pressure.
  • Low oil level.
    Damaged pressure sensor.
It could be as simple as needing a transmission fluid and filter change.
A friend's Ford Galaxy did this back in the 70s. One minute fine next minute nothing. Changed fluid and filter then it was fine again.

...
Hi Rick,

I spoke with the mechanic today. He's said that the voltage regulator is working fine (although I don't know how it was checked and I didn't ask). He called two Volvo dealerships nearby and they both said that the transmission is toast and they need to do a full rebuild. They said it's a high pressure problem and rebuild is the only way to fix it. The mechanic didn't even want to do fluids and filter as he's convinced it's toast from the call he had from Volvo. Does this even make sense?

I have no idea how Volvo is so convinced. I've been to one of the two mentioned Volvo dealers before with a prospective car that the seller was open about having a bad transmission and I wanted Volvo to do a full check of the car. Volvo said everything is fantastic and I should buy it and they will take on the service of the vehicle after I buy it and I have nothing to worry about. When I asked the manager how much a new transmission is for that specific [older] vehicle the manager (without blinking) told me an exact figure including labour.

Regards,
Gary

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Re: 2009 V50 Automatic Transmission 'Power Reduced' Issue

Post by RickHaleParker » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:36 am

Lets point out the obvious, that mechanic cannot diagnose the problem. Sounds to me like, the mechanic did not want to mess with it because it is over his head, he took or created a way out for him.

I suggest you do a fluid and filter change yourself or take it some place else and have it done. Also look into replacing the pressure sensor.

What gets me is the car drives. Nothing wrong in drivability, everything here is based on code not driveability. That points to a perceived defect rather than an actual defect. I think the hydraulic pressure is being misread ... the sensor or the fluid and filter is lowering the pressure.

BTW: That is a Ford Power Shift transmission MPS6 . You might want to consult with somebody well versed in Ford transmissions.
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GaryNuman
--------
Platform: P80 1998 C70, B5234T3, 16T, AW50-42, Bosch Motronic 4.4, Special Edition package, Plant: Uddevalla Sweden.
Platform: X40 (Nedcar) 2003 S40, B4204T3, 14T twin scroll AW55-50/51SN, Siemens EMS 2000. Plant: Born Netherlands.
Platform P2 2005 XC90 T6 Executive, B6294T, 4T65 AWD, Bosch Motronic 7.0, Plant Torslanda Sweden.
Platform P2 2004 S60R, B2524T4, AW50/51 AWD, Bosch Motronic 7.0, BorgWarner K24 turbocharger, Plant Ghent Belgium.

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Re: 2009 V50 Automatic Transmission 'Power Reduced' Issue

Post by GaryNuman » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:01 pm

RickHaleParker wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:36 am
Lets point out the obvious, that mechanic cannot diagnose the problem. Sounds to me like, the mechanic did not want to mess with it because it is over his head, he took or created a way out for him.

I suggest you do a fluid and filter change yourself or take it some place else and have it done. Also look into replacing the pressure sensor.

What gets me is the car drives. Nothing wrong in drivability, everything here is based on code not driveability. That points to a perceived defect rather than an actual defect. I think the hydraulic pressure is being misread ... the sensor or the fluid and filter is lowering the pressure.

BTW: That is a Ford Power Shift transmission MPS6 . You might want to consult with somebody well versed in Ford transmissions.
Hello Rick, thank you very much. After what seems like a forever wait the car's back and drives like new. No issues. The transmission was serviced and the alternator was worked on. The voltage regulator was screwed and replaced. The mechanic alluded to some other issue with the alternator but I didn't understand what he was saying with regard to it just that he fixed it. There was other minor mechanical work (the rear suspension). The mechanic threw his hands up in the air and said, 'you were right, the alternator was no good.' However, the transmission did need service. I hope this is useful for others in the future. So, again, thank you Rick, you were right and helped out hugely.

Regards,
Gary

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