IPD sale XeMODeX - Experts in Volvo Electronics
Did you know? 🤔
Logged in users can get email notification of topic replies Log in or register (free).
Amazon Link Buy anything with this and it helps MVS!

1999 V70 T5 M56 ELIZABETH No crank Problem [9472949 clutch switch ] Topic is solved

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's extremely popular car line -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, 850 R, 850 T5-R, 850 T5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

User avatar
callahanoffroad
Posts: 371
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:25 pm
Year and Model: 1995 850
Location: St. Louis Missouri
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 34 times
United States of America
callahanoffroad

Re: 1999 V70 T5 M56 ELIZABETH No crank Problem

Post by callahanoffroad » Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:08 pm

This makes me miss my old Landy Cruiser. You could hand crank the crankshaft with the key in run to start it. Logic circuit and wiring? Dang. Too much kerfuffle for me!
Author, Chef, and Shade Tree Mechanic

1995 Volvo 850, Non-Turbo, VVIS, LH FI, Green, 215,000 miles. B5254FS engine. Herman. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=84393

1996 Volvo 850, died at 280,000

Founder of: CookingForChemo.Org

User avatar
abscate
MVS Moderator
Posts: 21026
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:54 pm
Year and Model: 99T5 ,99S70,2005V70
Location: NYC, ALBANY NY
Has thanked: 315 times
Been thanked: 971 times
Trinidad & Tobago
abscate

Re: 1999 V70 T5 M56 ELIZABETH No crank Problem

Post by abscate » Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:49 pm

Well, here is the troubleshooting report

Car won’t crank in posIII

Jumping it at the bypass connector, car cranks and starts. Behaviour changed since last report

Quick swap of J relay, no change.

Tested terminal 86 , trigger signal on starter relay, goes to 12,3 Volts on key position III.

Tried new ignition switch, no change.

Fire up VIDA

21 start cycles showing clutch switch faults in VIDA, clutch signal out of range.

We ran out of daylight and cold at this point, but I had time to find my spare clutch switches.

Note the1999 starter circuit. The J relay gets12 volts trigger from the key I posIII, BUt the terminal 85 side of the trigger has to be grounded by the 2/76 lock module , after getting the right logic inputs from the ECU
Empty Nester
A Captain in a Sea of Estrogen
1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 BMW
Link to Maintenance record thread
Link To Volvo Glossary

User avatar
erikv11
Posts: 9661
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:03 pm
Year and Model: 850, S/V70, 06 S60R
Location: Iowa
Has thanked: 94 times
Been thanked: 276 times
United States of America
erikv11

Re: 1999 V70 T5 M56 ELIZABETH No crank Problem

Post by erikv11 » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:01 pm

Oops it is a manual. I never even thought about the clutch switch ...
'95 854 T5-R, Motronic 4.4, 185k
'96 855 NA, 145k
'98 S70 NA, 220k (living out west)
'98 V70, T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine, 286k
'06 S60 R, 167k
'99 Camry V6 :shock: 125k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k

User avatar
abscate
MVS Moderator
Posts: 21026
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:54 pm
Year and Model: 99T5 ,99S70,2005V70
Location: NYC, ALBANY NY
Has thanked: 315 times
Been thanked: 971 times
Trinidad & Tobago
abscate

Re: 1999 V70 T5 M56 ELIZABETH No crank Problem

Post by abscate » Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:56 am

The fault is almost persistent, but about e/(sqrt( alpha)) the car starts normally. Alpha is the waterfall fine structure constant of approximately 147.

That upset our diagnostic fu.

I confess to parts darting the J relay because it was so easy ( and I was parked next to another car with the same relay)

I am also allowing the possibility of logic failure as the clutch errors in VIDA could be generated by the use of the remote starter switch
Empty Nester
A Captain in a Sea of Estrogen
1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 BMW
Link to Maintenance record thread
Link To Volvo Glossary

User avatar
abscate
MVS Moderator
Posts: 21026
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:54 pm
Year and Model: 99T5 ,99S70,2005V70
Location: NYC, ALBANY NY
Has thanked: 315 times
Been thanked: 971 times
Trinidad & Tobago
abscate

Re: 1999 V70 T5 M56 ELIZABETH No crank Problem

Post by abscate » Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:03 am

Looping back on this no crank problem.

I got my car back from my friend and it’s really interesting

No crank on pos III, just the BOINK of the internal relays.

But.... If you put in neutral and turn to position III and wait 5 seconds , it cranks and starts with the clutch engaged

😁😁😁

Forgot to add, we swapped In a brand new ignition switch and no change to problem or symptoms. Before I had a chance to send back to FCP, my favorite lawyer in NJ needed one so I sent it to him
Empty Nester
A Captain in a Sea of Estrogen
1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 BMW
Link to Maintenance record thread
Link To Volvo Glossary

User avatar
abscate
MVS Moderator
Posts: 21026
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:54 pm
Year and Model: 99T5 ,99S70,2005V70
Location: NYC, ALBANY NY
Has thanked: 315 times
Been thanked: 971 times
Trinidad & Tobago
abscate

Re: 1999 V70 T5 M56 ELIZABETH No crank Problem

Post by abscate » Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:34 am

Well, replaced clutch switch with known to be good

Car now cranks with clutch on floor

It also cranks after a 5 second delay with clutch engaged

Waiting for some M56 owners to test this on other cars.......

Update,...it looks like this is special on my car... 8)

Clutch switch tests out close to Specs, searchable here under part number 9472979
Empty Nester
A Captain in a Sea of Estrogen
1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 BMW
Link to Maintenance record thread
Link To Volvo Glossary

User avatar
Clemens
Posts: 1174
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:34 pm
Year and Model: 96 855 R + 94 855 T5
Location: Austria
Has thanked: 93 times
Been thanked: 53 times
Austria
Clemens

Re: 1999 V70 T5 M56 ELIZABETH No crank Problem

Post by Clemens » Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:47 am

Just an idea: get rid of the clutch switch. This should be possible. The EU spec cars have no clutch switch, so simply bridging the wires shouls work, I guess.
Still weird that it does that 5 second thing.
But then maybe, it only powers that wire for 5 seconds and you never noticed it because you are yoused to pressing the clutch when cranking anyhow.
Summer: 1996 855 R
Winter: 1994 855 T5M
Donor: 1995 854 10V

User avatar
abscate
MVS Moderator
Posts: 21026
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:54 pm
Year and Model: 99T5 ,99S70,2005V70
Location: NYC, ALBANY NY
Has thanked: 315 times
Been thanked: 971 times
Trinidad & Tobago
abscate

Re: 1999 V70 T5 M56 ELIZABETH No crank Problem

Post by abscate » Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:53 am

I thought that too, Clemens. I checked with a few other M56 owners and they report no cranking.

The change in resistance from clutch out ( foot off) to clutch in ( foot down) is 3000 ohms to 300 ohms

The ECU must look for a certain current. On the 1999 the clutch switch has two direct connections to the ECM

I know from previous experimentation that is unlatched logic, if you sit with the key in position iii , you can toggle cranking by depressing and releasing the clutch. I don’t think I held it long enough to test the 5 second cranking, though,previously.
Empty Nester
A Captain in a Sea of Estrogen
1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 BMW
Link to Maintenance record thread
Link To Volvo Glossary

User avatar
abscate
MVS Moderator
Posts: 21026
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:54 pm
Year and Model: 99T5 ,99S70,2005V70
Location: NYC, ALBANY NY
Has thanked: 315 times
Been thanked: 971 times
Trinidad & Tobago
abscate

Re: 1999 V70 T5 M56 ELIZABETH No crank Problem

Post by abscate » Mon May 18, 2020 3:07 pm

Finally replaced that clutch switch

It measured 477 Ohms closed, and about 1 cm from end of travel it reached 3800 Ohms, then went open circuit

This caused a clutch switch permanent fuault and apparently also allows the ECU to crank the engine after 5bseconds of POS III

This also disable cruise control on ME7 as the same switch is used for clutch dropout,

In short, a new switch cleaned everything up
Empty Nester
A Captain in a Sea of Estrogen
1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 BMW
Link to Maintenance record thread
Link To Volvo Glossary

scot850
Posts: 5900
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:46 pm
Year and Model: 2000 V70 R
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 208 times
Canada
scot850

Re: 1999 V70 T5 M56 ELIZABETH No crank Problem [9472949 clutch switch ]

Post by scot850 » Mon May 18, 2020 3:40 pm

You should be really proud of getting to the end of this one! Totally impressed.

Neil.
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - New project and test bed - Sold

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post