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New Head gasket or new motor? 2005 Volvo S60R

Help, Advice, Owners' Discussion and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's stylish, distinctive "P2" platform cars.

2001 - 2007 V70
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RickHaleParker
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Re: WHAT WOULD U DO? New Head gasket or new motor??

Post by RickHaleParker » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:08 pm

vtl wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:18 pm
What would you do with a cracked cylinder sleeve?
Most of us would cross that bridge when we come to it, not before.
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Platform: P80 1998 C70, B5234T3, 16T, AW50-42, Bosch Motronic 4.4, Special Edition package, Plant: Uddevalla Sweden.
Platform: X40 (Nedcar) 2003 S40, B4204T3, 14T twin scroll AW55-50/51SN, Siemens EMS 2000. Plant: Born Netherlands.
Platform P2 2005 XC90 T6 Executive, B6294T, 4T65 AWD, Bosch Motronic 7.0, Plant Torslanda Sweden.
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Re: WHAT WOULD U DO? New Head gasket or new motor??

Post by SuperHerman » Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:58 am

How many miles on the current engine?

Here is what I would do - create your build list for a head gasket job. Usually the kit comes with almost every gasket and seal you need. Then decide if you are going to do the timing belt and related - add it to the list. Next up is whether you rebuild the turbo (extra $100 or so) while you have every thing apart. Finally find your machine shop and get prices.

Next step figure out what tools you will need - for the most part you should have the Volvo cam locking set.

At this point you can decide if you want to do the head gasket, but consider a used engine will need the timing belt and prudence would have you do various seals.

Again me, I have what I need and have done similar Volvo engines. Each time I had the head planed and did the valve seals and lapping myself.

At this point if you are still thinking of doing the job - look down each spark plug well and find your culprits - if the head gasket is bad the piston tops should show some steam cleaning, at least one of them. If none do, it is not determinative, but could suggest a cracked piston wall. Also closely examine your coolant and oil for blending of the other fluid. This is another clue. Finally pull the head gasket and pay special attention to any sticking and debris left on the block and head. A clue the head gasket is blown. Examine the head gasket for the same. Take plenty of pictures and post your results. Finally measure or have the machine shop measure the flatness of the head - if it is warped that points to head gasket. You have to check the flatness of the block deck.

One other thing, which is a pain on Volvo's due to their cam covers - you could have a loose head gasket bolt. Unfortunately it is work to check it on your engine. Related, pay attention to the force needed to remove each head gasket bolt and look for a correlation with any piston tops that show signs of steaming.

You really have to pull the head to get a clear idea of what is going on - it is not a bad job and there are plenty of write ups and videos. Once the head is pulled and you are confident it is the head gasket order your parts.
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Re: WHAT WOULD U DO? New Head gasket or new motor??

Post by erikv11 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:30 am

Lots of good comments, here would be my main thoughts:

- Having done both in the garage a few times, swapping the engine is much less technical than the repairing the head. As long as you have an engine hoist and some room and can be careful, this is a good option. Unbolt a bunch of stuff, remove the engine, put the other one in, re-bolt.

- The B5244T5 is the way to go, people have been doing that swap for years with this problematic R engine. Be sure to do the oil pan o-rings and timing parts while the engine is out. e.g. viewtopic.php?t=89634&start=30 but there are lots of threads if you dig
Last edited by erikv11 on Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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humanatek
'95 854 T5-R, Motronic 4.4, 185k
'96 855 NA, 145k
'98 S70 NA, 220k (living out west)
'98 V70, T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine, 285k
'06 S60 R, 165k
'99 Camry V6 :shock: 125k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k

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Re: WHAT WOULD U DO? New Head gasket or new motor??

Post by vtl » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:44 am

Rear main seal, too.
05 XC70 260k, 16 XC60 40k, 19 Tundra 1k

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Re: WHAT WOULD U DO? New Head gasket or new motor??

Post by BlackBart » Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:12 pm

humanatek wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:40 pm
... I could DIY it myself, as I've rebuilt Alfa motors before, which have got to have served as some PAIN TEST for this kinda project yes?
I'm an old Alfa guy! I have an extra 1600 on the garage floor in case I need to build one.

Glad to see you're getting some really knowledgeable advice from these guys. I was unaware of the sleeve cracking issue.
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Is it time for a 1964 122 wagon?

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Re: New Head gasket or new motor? 2005 Volvo S60R

Post by firstv70volvo » Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:55 am

Something to consider to determine the condition of your existing engine is using an endoscope to check for cracked sleeve and evidence of head gasket leak. For $80 you can get one with two cameras; front and side or $40 for the single camera version. I recently bought one to help me determine what's wrong my transmission and what to do about it and I'm impressed with the image quality and the ability to snap photos (or video) while using it. I was able to determine my trans filter is clogged up even though I've regularly replaced ATF and have always used on inline filter that was changed on regular basis.

Through the spark plug holes it's very possible you could better determine whether to replace or keep the current engine without tearing it apart. Would recommend getting the one with the second side camera.

This is the one I purchased and I've attached a couple of photos captured while using it.
DEPSTECH Dual Lens WiFi Endoscope

I also have a plan how I'm going to clean my transmission filter and I'll be able to find out how well it works out using the tool.
Attachments
AW55 trans filter II.jpg
AW55 trans filter.jpg
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Re: WHAT WOULD U DO? New Head gasket or new motor??

Post by humanatek » Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:19 pm

vtl wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:00 pm
Given it's R, new gasket won't help. Need another engine.
Hello VTI, what makes you so confident that I need a new engine? What science are you basing it on? I'm trying to learn along the way here. Thanks!

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Re: WHAT WOULD U DO? New Head gasket or new motor??

Post by humanatek » Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:50 pm

BlackBart wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:12 pm
humanatek wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:40 pm
... I could DIY it myself, as I've rebuilt Alfa motors before, which have got to have served as some PAIN TEST for this kinda project yes?
I'm an old Alfa guy! I have an extra 1600 on the garage floor in case I need to build one.

Glad to see you're getting some really knowledgeable advice from these guys. I was unaware of the sleeve cracking issue.

Yes, thank you, I remember your brand in the Alfista World, nice to see you again, thanks!

Actually wondering if it's cheaper to buy a high performance monosleeve cylinder sleeves, to get rid of the future cracked sleeve BS, and rebuild the head and replace the gaskets...? I could drop in a slightly higher performance turbo this way too?

Also, one more question, does the motor have to be a 6spd manual ONLY, or can I drop a motor from an automatic S60R into my manual 6spd R?

MORE DETAILS:

The general Euro mechanic practitioner, (not a Volvo specialist, but very competent) who's shop my car is at, said he did drop a video boroscope into the cylinders of my R and he did confirm that there was water there. Does this officically render my beloved R motor unrebuildable and dead forever?

I"m in Riverside, California, any DIYers with time on your hand that won't mind lending their advice and genius on my little project? Or any referrals of competent Volvo enthusiast mechanics near me, that any of you would recommend?

I have till tomorrow to pick up my and determine whether I get a new motor or a rebuild the one I have.

Sorry to keep pestering you gentlemen, but as you know a man's "horse" is very personal and sacred. :lol: :lol:

Thanks in advance for your help.

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Re: WHAT WOULD U DO? New Head gasket or new motor??

Post by RickHaleParker » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:07 pm

humanatek wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:50 pm
Does this officically render my beloved R motor unrebuildable and dead forever?
It is inconclusive. It could be a blown head gasket. It may just need a head gasket and some work on the head.
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humanatek
Platform: P80 1998 C70, B5234T3, 16T, AW50-42, Bosch Motronic 4.4, Special Edition package, Plant: Uddevalla Sweden.
Platform: X40 (Nedcar) 2003 S40, B4204T3, 14T twin scroll AW55-50/51SN, Siemens EMS 2000. Plant: Born Netherlands.
Platform P2 2005 XC90 T6 Executive, B6294T, 4T65 AWD, Bosch Motronic 7.0, Plant Torslanda Sweden.
Platform P2 2004 S60R, B2524T4, AW50/51 AWD, Bosch Motronic 7.0, BorgWarner K24 turbocharger, Plant Ghent Belgium.

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Re: WHAT WOULD U DO? New Head gasket or new motor??

Post by erikv11 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:04 am

erikv11 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:30 am
Lots of good comments, here would be my main thoughts:

- Having done both in the garage a few times, swapping the engine is much less technical than the repairing the head. As long as you have a lift and some room and can be careful, this is a good option. Unbolt a bunch of stuff, remove the engine, put the other one in, re-bolt.

- The B5244T5 is the way to go, people have been doing that swap for years with this problematic R engine. Be sure to do the oil pan o-rings and timing parts while the engine is out. e.g. viewtopic.php?t=89634&start=30 but there are lots of threads if you dig
Oops not a lift, just an engine hoist.
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humanatek
'95 854 T5-R, Motronic 4.4, 185k
'96 855 NA, 145k
'98 S70 NA, 220k (living out west)
'98 V70, T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine, 285k
'06 S60 R, 165k
'99 Camry V6 :shock: 125k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k

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