1995 850GLT: Front end Accident, they think its totalled WTH

viper69 · Post by **viper69** » 03 Dec 2009, 12:51

I'm sad to say I had a small, front end collision accident with my 5 speed 850GLT sedan, thank god everyone is OK. It has 105,100 miles, and it is in perfect running shape. It's been in the desert all its life, so as people know it's in pristine condition due to the dry conditions in a desert..No rust etc.

The insurance company thinks it may be "totaled out" which I think is crazy. The front is dented in, needs a new grille, and a new hood. I haven't had a body guy look inside to see if there is damage beyond internally.

There is no damage to the front quarter panels at all, only the hood.
They wanted to replace the plastic bumper, but I told them I didn't care about the discoloration, and not to include it in the estimate

At the moment the insurance appraisor is thinking $2,000-2,500 to repair from looking at it. However, if the price creeps up higher they want to total out a completely good car.

The car is worth more to me as a car, as I am the sole owner and thus know its history etc, then getting a check to buy someone else's vehicle.

What do people think...if the company says its totaled, go with that..or repair it..I say repair it.

One of the things I thought sounded odd was if they decide to pay for repairs, I wouldn't be getting a new Volvo hood, I'd be getting some after market hood from another Volvo, and he said they'd have to paint the hood and part of the front quarter panels to make it match.

Why don't they just a put new Volvo hood w/the same color?

Second, I added an image with some arrows and text. I have a question regarding the metal piece. The piece looks like part of the frame or something. It sits behind the bumper a bit. When I look at it, it curves downward a bit. I cannot tell if it was originally like that, or the curving is due to the accident.

In the picture to the left is an out of focus right headlamp wiper.

Does someone know what it should be like?

Post by **RobTheModd** » 03 Dec 2009, 13:58

ok i couldnt see the damage. so i lightened up the photo a bit.

: Front.jpg (115.36 KiB) Viewed 3765 times

Hmmm ill go with... 200 for bumper- 3-400 for hood- 75 MAX grille- and idk how much for headlights...

NOW the smart thing to do... would be to call up your local auto yard for the bumper, the hood and the headlights and compare to the prices i gave you. The grille might cost the same, but shop around on volvospeed or post here.
I just bought a black grille for mine for about 35 bucks.
sorry id sell you my old one but im seeing how it looks once i get it. and i might be changing my silver to red or something... idk.

If the car still runs fine I dont see why you would have to scrap it.

Your headlights are going to cost the most, but since you need new ones it looks like id just get an upgrade, like halo's or just a newer more upto date set.

Heres your plan
DO NOT BUY THE GRILLE ONLINE OR AT A STORE UNLESS ITS UNDER 50$ My junk yard which is usually EXTREMELY cheap, quoted me 75 for a used one with or without the emblem... and most online stores charge 75+ try forums to get one

the rest, check prices online. and post in the wanted section on here and VS asking to buy the pieces you need. I believe VS someone has two part cars in your color.
PM me your email and I will help you look. I can tell you right now my auto yard doesnt have your color or I would gladly see how much they want for them and charge you what they charged and shipping.

TBH it doesn't look that bad. And the repairs all look VERY DIY. Maybe a wrench.

Post by **Ozark Lee** » 03 Dec 2009, 14:39

Insurance companies are tough to deal with on these things. They don't understand "car guys" that have completely gone through the stage zero process and that you have a car that runs like brand new. I am going through a similar thing right now since my batty mother-in-law just totaled out her Buick.

They should offer you some options. While it may vary from state to state when they total a car they also provide a sales tax settlement to cover the cost of the tax on the replacement car - that is a plus. They should also offer to let you buy the car back from them but you will need to sign the title over first and then you will be reissued a salvage title. In my mother-in-law's case they estimated the damage at around $6500 and the car was worth $5900, most of the time they will total at a percentage of the car's value. My insurance company, State Farm, uses 60% as I recall - that too may vary from state to state since insurance is a state regulated industry. In my mother-in-laws case they offered to pay the claim in full and sell her the car back for $600.00. I'm not sure what the buyback cost is based on.

I was going to buy back my wife's Chrysler Concorde right up to the point where I went to the salvage pool and they used a forklift to pick it up, dropped it from about 8 feet, picked it up again and ripped the whole exhaust system off of it. At that point I just got her license plate and personal items out of the car and found a new one.

The ability and requirements to register a car with a salvage title also varies from state to state so check to see what your requirements are.

The car looks, from the pictures, like it could be easily fixed but its re-sale value will be greatly diminished. In my case I couldn't care less about resale value since I just drive cars until we hit another deer or they just won't go anymore. When my cars go to the junk yard they are well and truly done.

Good luck with it,

...Lee

Post by **meine39** » 03 Dec 2009, 14:57

One of the things I thought sounded odd was if they decide to pay for repairs, I wouldn't be getting a new Volvo hood, I'd be getting some after market hood from another Volvo, and he said they'd have to paint the hood and part of the front quarter panels to make it match.

By definition, an aftermarket part is a new part manufactured by someone else besides Volvo, so "aftermarket hood from another Volvo" is a contradiction. They'll either use a new hood manufactured by an aftermarket supplier which they'll paint to match, or source a hood from a Volvo wreck which they'll paint to match.

Why don't they just a put new Volvo hood w/the same color?

It's unlikely an insurance company is going to pay for a NOS (new old stock) genuine Volvo hood on a car that's now 15 model years old(it's also unlikely that there are any genuine unused Volvo hoods around). In any case, a new Volvo hood or aftermarket hood will come painted in primer and will be finish coated to match your car. Car manufacturers and aftermarket suppliers don't stock prepainted body panels - it's the body shop's job to prep and finish coat the part.

Remember that "totaled" simply means that the cost of repairs exceeds the value of the car, so the older the car the easier it is to reach the "totaled" threshold.

I sympathize with you - our neighbor just backed in to our 850, and the body shop estimate is $2000 - the car's probably only worth about $1500 in the market, but it's "priceless" to us in terms of us knowing its history and keeping it in excellent mechanical condition. If the insurance company totals the car and writes me a check for $2000, I will NEVER be able to replace it with something comparable for $2K.

viper69 · Post by **viper69** » 03 Dec 2009, 15:47

meine39 wrote:
I sympathize with you - our neighbor just backed in to our 850, and the body shop estimate is $2000 - the car's probably only worth about $1500 in the market, but it's "priceless" to us in terms of us knowing its history and keeping it in excellent mechanical condition. If the insurance company totals the car and writes me a check for $2000, I will NEVER be able to replace it with something comparable for $2K.

Thanks everyone for filling me in on information like this. I have never had this happen. I agree, I told the claims guy you will never be able to pay me what it is really "worth" as a working vehicle. I agree about the history and EVERYTHING I just quoted above.

Also, like the above poster, I will never sell this car, so if they do total it out, and agree to let me purchase it, which they may not, I will of course repair it. I'm not a mechanic/body guy, otherwise I would do it myself.

I'm looking at a body guy's quote (he didn't open the hood yet because the claims guy wasn't there), and so far with all OEM parts it's at 2,469 for parts. Including labor it's up to 4,200

The most expensive parts are the following:

Front Bumper Cover 648.25
Grille 216.00
The headlamps 356.05 EACH!!! OMG, and these are stock..not some halogen super bright ones HOLY SH*T!
Hood 605.88

If the insurance covers it, I don't even know if I will get OEM parts, and that concerns me quite a bit. I'm checking to see if I was originally offered OEM options for my insurance or not. Right now I don't have it. So I'm pretty ticked, because I know OEM is best regarding the tolerance of parts. Though maybe being a Volvo there aren't many aftermarket parts. It's not a Ford or a Toyota. I don't know though.

The autobody guy is pretty sure it isn't totaled out. He uses the same software the claims guy uses, and said there's plenty of room to work with before the software says "totaled out"..Will see though, I find out more tomorrow in theory.

QUESTION on Salvage Title: If they won't pay for it, but the insurance company says they will sell it back to me as a salvage vehicle, how do I insure the fact that they will in fact sell it. I would hate to take a check, sign over the title, only for them to say "too bad, see you sucker" I'd be furious.

This is so frustrating.

anmartin44 · Post by **anmartin44** » 03 Dec 2009, 16:24

dude you can get a pair of "Halo style headlights from IPD for 365 dollars a pair. there's some on ebay for $260 a pair. i've got an OEM grille I'll sell you for 30 OBO. IPD also has custom grilles for under$100. I've got a ton of other parts also. as long as the airbags didn't deploy you shouldn't have any problem fixing what I can see from the pics with basic wrenches and screwdivers and some torx. I rebuilt the front end of mine with just a couple cuss words and i had never done any body work before. good luck man!

Post by **matthew1** » 03 Dec 2009, 16:35

Insurance companies are businesses that want to take care of your case and move on. They don't give a squirt of [water] about the subtleties and joys of a good-running Volvo. To them it's just a car, just a case number. Too bad, but that's the way it is.

My dad got his S80 hit near the front wheel about 4 months ago. No structural damage, just $1200+/- of bodywork.

The insurance company totaled it out, gave him a few grand to get something else. He bought it back from them for peanuts, and now has a salvage title S80. He cannot get anything but basic insurance, so he's buying AAA coverage to supplement his regular insurance.

I told him he's treading on thin ice with that car because when the transmission goes, it'll be essentially worthless, unless he wants to screw around selling parts off it which he will not do.

viper69 · Post by **viper69** » 03 Dec 2009, 16:55

matthew1 wrote:He cannot get anything but basic insurance, so he's buying AAA coverage to supplement his regular insurance.

So this raises YET another question...If the vehicle is a salvage titled vehicle insurance companies won't/may not insure like they did prior to the accident. Why not? This is sounding worse and worse.

As for the repairs, I actually can't do it myself. There some work behind the grill that needs to be done. The bar that is bent downward needs to be fixed or replaced. That is work I simply don't know how to do I don't think.

2. Regarding the lights, I wouldn't mind better front lamps, but I know nothing of which ones to get etc etc. All I know is the Volvo computer is so sensitive regarding amperage that if the proper bulb isn't in there, even if the bulb is rated the same as the stock Volvo bulb, my amber bulb light goes off! So I gave up considering anything. But are their brighter lights that work no matter what w/out tripping the Volvo computer light on everyone's car for my model, or is it a case by case basis?

Post by **matthew1** » 03 Dec 2009, 17:08

viper69 wrote:
matthew1 wrote:He cannot get anything but basic insurance, so he's buying AAA coverage to supplement his regular insurance.
So this raises YET another question...If the vehicle is a salvage titled vehicle insurance companies won't/may not insure like they did prior to the accident. Why not? This is sounding worse and worse.

Why? Because part of the business of insuring any vehicle is knowing that it's at least at some level of mechanical competency, however minimal. Now this doesn't say much when you look at the crap people drive out there, but a clean title is at least something. What insurers know they don't want to cover is a car that's been in an accident or in a flood (the definition of a salvage title car).

Would you want to guarantee -- out of your own pocket -- 100 cars with clean titles or 100 salvage title cars that may shut down in the middle of an intersection, have their brakes fail at a stoplight, pop the airbags on the highway, etc.

As for salvage title insurance coverage, I'm sure it depends on the state you're in and the insurance company in question. I'm sure it's not the same in any 2 states. Call your insurer for clarification.

2bad · Post by **2bad** » 03 Dec 2009, 18:19

You have a lot of good advise here from the other forum members. I went through a situation almost exactly like yours a couple of years ago and learned a lot from it.

It is hard to be sure from your pictures, but if the only things damaged on your headlamps are your front lenses, you should be able to find those from a knowledgable volvo aftermarket parts dealer. You can look up volvo parts or "swedish car parts" on google and find distibutors for non-factory replacements parts much cheaper. I bought a headlamp lens imported from Canada for my 850 once for under $100 when the only way the dealer would deal with me was for an entire headlamp casing for $365. I'm sure they are more now. The lens I got came in a Volvo box from Canada.

Now, I can't see what's wrong with your bumper cover. If it's just cracked somewhere, can you live with it? Your car won't know the difference. I saved $500 that way not too long ago. Yeah, my cover has a crack in it but so what? The car has 200K miles on it and runs great.

Around here the insurance companies got the state to pass a law that FORCES them to "total" the car if the repair estimate exceeds 75% of book value. Estimates are just that, and body shops can "find" more stuff that has to be fixed that couldn't be seen from the outside at the time of estimate after they already have half the work done and the insurance company is already on the hook. So, that law protects the insurance companies from that liability. Those of us who take excellent care of our old Volvos are the ones who get screwed in that case - sort of. It doesn't have to be too bad. If it still drives you can just take a check from the insurance company and the state will issue a salvage title and you can spend that money however you want to whenever you want to. If you make a big enough stink about it with the insurance adjusters and demand to talk to their supervisors about how well you maintained the car and drag it out over several inefficient phone calls they will get tired of the case and give you $300 more than their "final" offer just to get you to shut up and go away. Don't worry about them trying to keep the car. They don't want it.

If you do some research on parts and shop around you can find a body shop who will work with you to do only what is absolutely necessary and save you some $.

Even if they found a hood in a boneyard from a car that had the same factory paint the fading probably has not been the same as it has on your car so if you want new parts to match in color you always have to do some painting and at least blend the colors into each other. If you can really hunt around and find a salvage hood with the same factory paint and don't mind a slight mismatch you can save hundreds of dollars by forgoing the paint work.

A deal like this starts out looking really bad but if you put your mind to it, negotiate hard, spend some time hunting parts and services, and resolve to live with what you can, you can actually come out way ahead on this deal!