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Alternative to replacing positive battery cable

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's P80 platform cars -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, including 850 R, 850 T-5R, 850 T-5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

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MrPc
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Year and Model: 850R 1996
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Alternative to replacing positive battery cable

Post by MrPc »

Today I set out to tackle the battery-does-not-charge-very-well problem in my '96 850R wagon, and thought I would share my results.

I had previously determined via the voltage drop test that my positive battery cable needed to be replaced: the volt-drop test showed 13.92 at the alternator at idle, and 12.89 at the battery, a loss of just over 1 volt; the battery terminal was hot. By probing various points in between the alternator and the battery post, I was able to determine that almost 100% of the voltage drop was at the crimp connection of the starter cable to the battery terminal itself. ( I did this by gnawing a small hole in the insulator that covers the cable/terminal connection using an exacto knife, and then probing through the hole.)

Armed with the replacement cable from fcpgroton, fully discussed in https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums ... =1&t=47706, I headed out to the garage.

I have big hands, so I removed the battery, the fan, the turbo air duct, and the ram air inlet pipe. This gave me good access to the starter and the wire loom that leads between the battery and the starter. I snaked the replacement cable through the maze, and began to position it before securing it with zip ties.

But as I did so, I felt a growing sense of dissatisfaction with the solution. I didn't like snaking yet another bulky cable through an area already crowded with the original cable harness, the lower rad hose, the transmission dipstick, the transmission cooler lines and the pnp switch. I also didn't like the idea of leaving the old terminals hanging at each end, or cutting them off and leaving an otherwise perfectly good cable there. I also, for some reason, I always really liked volvo's battery clamps with the bolt coming from the top, much more than the replacement with the angled bolt. (Yes, I totally realize that these last two reasons are nothing more than fashion statements...Shallow, I know.)

Recognizing a nothing-to-lose situation, I decided to see if I could fix the attachment of the battery clamp to the cable.

I started by removing the remainder of the rubber insulation that covers the attachment of the starter cable to the battery clamp. Scissors worked well for this. This left about 1/2" of exposed copper between the battery clamp and the cable's red plastic insulation.

Turning the clamp upside down, and holding it in small vise grips which where in turn held in a small vise to free up hands, I applied paste solder flux to the exposed cable and to the inside of the terminal. I then heated the terminal with a small butane torch until the flux boiled off and began to smoke. I continued heating until the terminal was hot enough to melt solder, at which point I applied more flux, because the solder was not sticking to either the terminal or the cable. More heat, applied now to both the cable and the terminal, and the solder began to wick into both the cable strands and the cavities in the terminal as well. I tried to maintain that temperature on the joint, while I kept feeding solder into it, feeding and feeding, until it was pretty much full. I was using a rather fine strand of rosin core solder that I use for electronics, so it felt like I was shoving a lot in. I learned to stop once the terminal is full, because otherwise the strands of copper in the cable wick the solder into the cable making it very stiff and hard to straighten.
The setup.
The setup.
small_0002_edit.jpg (55.62 KiB) Viewed 5270 times
The resulting joint.
The resulting joint.
small_0003_edit.JPG (50.22 KiB) Viewed 5270 times
Once the joint cooled off, I tested the cable with my ESR meter, which measured 0.01 ohms. (Sorry--I didn't think of using it to take a before reading. Btw, ESR meters are ideal for measuring very small resistances.)

I wrapped the junction in disco red electrical tape to match the color of the cable, and reassembled everything.
Reassembled.
Reassembled.
small_0004_edit.JPG (56.08 KiB) Viewed 5270 times
The improvement was immediately apparent when I started the car. The starter turned the engine over much quicker than it ever has in the 9 years I have owned it. The voltage across the battery terminals is now 13.89v, a loss of just 30mV across the cables.

It remains to be seen if this is a lasting fix. If not, my replacement cable is in my parts box standing by. In the meantime, here is a pic of the tools and materials I used, in case it helps anyone else who wants to give it a try. I imagine that many different kinds of flux and solder, and colors of tape will work.
small_0005_edit.JPG
small_0005_edit.JPG (71.94 KiB) Viewed 5270 times
Overall, this was cheap and pretty easy. If it lasts, so much the better! I'll keep you posted....
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Red Red '96 855R, 169k

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BEJinFbk
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Post by BEJinFbk »

Nice write up! A good solution to a common problem.
The only thing that I would recommend is to go with flux intended
for electronics and stay away from plumbing oriented products.
( nice touch with the color coordinated tape! )
'98 V70 R - Well Equipped for Life Up North... ;)

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rspi
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Post by rspi »

So, basically all you did was solder the end of the cable at the battery connection? Did you have to clean anything up?

I have been thinking about cutting the connection end off and installing a new one. I purchased one several months ago and have not done it.
'95 855 T-5R M, Panther - 22/28 mpg, 546,000 miles
'95 955 T-5R Yellow Wagon, Lemonade, 180,000 miles
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jimmy57
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Post by jimmy57 »

I have done this as repair dozens of times. I rinse the cable end with water and blow it with air blower and then use a small butane torch to solder cable to end.
older rear wheel drive volvos had crimped battery end terminals and they had the same issue.

Years ago I could get terminals from Wurth (I think) and cut the end of cable off and crimp and solder it back on. The nice part about that repair was the ability to slip a length of sealant filled shrink tubing on so the soldered connection could be covered.

Those type ends are sold on Ebay now.

MrPc
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Post by MrPc »

Yep, basically that's what I did....but only after doing about 75% of the new cable install first. :?

There wasn't much to clean up. The flux I used boiled off pretty much completely, and the terminal and cable soaked up enough heat that there was hardly any scorching on the insulation at all. I took the "after" photo while it was cooling. It was that clean. You can see a little bit of flux residue from the rosin core solder on the right side of the battery terminal--it doesn't need to be removed.

BEJinFbk makes a good point about electronic vs plumbing flux. If I had had some electronics flux I would have tried it first, but all I had was a small flux pen. The plumbing stuff seems overly nasty, but I didn't feel bad using it because in my experience it has gotten solder to flow when nothing else will. And the cable/terminal combination seemed a good candidate for it because of their age and the likelihood of some kind of corrosion in it which caused the bad joint to begin with. The solder I used to make the joint is rosin-core, which provides its own flux.

I wondered if residue from the acid plumbing flux might promote corrosion of the cable/joint in the future. I thought it was worth trying when I considered that the sweat joints on copper pipes don't seem to corrode due the flux.
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cn90
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Post by cn90 »

Thanks for the tip!

I am thinking: how about simply heating the cable end with butane torch w/o flux? The heat alone should "melt" away all the corrosion.
Then follow that up with a bit of WD-40 or something like that.

On the same topic, keep the battery vent far away from the cable terminals.
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rspi
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Post by rspi »

MrPc wrote:Yep, basically that's what I did... There wasn't much to clean up. The flux I used boiled off pretty much completely, and the terminal and cable soaked up enough heat that there was hardly any scorching on the insulation at all. I wondered if residue from the acid plumbing flux might promote corrosion of the cable/joint in the future. I thought it was worth trying when I considered that the sweat joints on copper pipes don't seem to corrode due the flux.
I have done a lot of copper plumbing soldering and have never seen any corrosion in those connections so I don't see why it would promote corrosion. So basically the flux it to clean out the connector?

Since I took apart my cable end and cleaned it up, I have not had any starting issues but I have seen my charging voltage bouncing around from 13. 4 down to as low as 11.8 (rare). Usually around 12.4 to 13.2.

I'm going to do this within the next few days. If there were an award for the best FIX of the year, I would have to vote for this. There is nothing worse than having your car not start for something as simple as this. You da' man dog. Ruff ruff!!!
'95 855 T-5R M, Panther - 22/28 mpg, 546,000 miles
'95 955 T-5R Yellow Wagon, Lemonade, 180,000 miles
--------------------
Volvo's of past: '87 740 GLE, '79 262C Bertone, '78 264, 960's, '98 S70 GLT, '95 850 T-5R YellowVolvo Repair Videos

MrPc
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Post by MrPc »

Yeah, the flux is to clean it up for solder. But it's not so much to clean out the connector itself as to clean the surfaces of the metal so that the solder will flow onto it and stick to it. So, if you have visible corrosion that prevents you from seeing the metal, it won't work, you'll need to get any powdery flakey stuff out first to get to bare metal. But once you can see the metal, the flux will remove the surface oxidation layer to help it accept solder.

On my cable and terminal, there was no visible corrosion whatsoever. Yet I still had to hit it with acid flux twice before the solder flowed and stuck. Before that, it would just melt and roll off in beads.

For this reason, I don't think that just heating it to bake off the corrosion would work. But on the other hand, it seems that jimmy57 has had a lot of success using just water. I would give that try too.
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JRL
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Post by JRL »

We just cut the old cable off, mod the new one (if necessary) and crimp on the new one, period.
This works just fine
Mod note. Jim passed away in early 2022, his contributions to this forum are immortal, and he is missed. RIP

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rspi
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Post by rspi »

How much are the replacement cables? A few months ago when I looked I thought I seen a cable for something like $129.
'95 855 T-5R M, Panther - 22/28 mpg, 546,000 miles
'95 955 T-5R Yellow Wagon, Lemonade, 180,000 miles
--------------------
Volvo's of past: '87 740 GLE, '79 262C Bertone, '78 264, 960's, '98 S70 GLT, '95 850 T-5R YellowVolvo Repair Videos

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