97 850 trans - Swap from slushbox [auto] to exciting manual Topic is solved

beigg · Post by **beigg** » 12 Nov 2016, 11:00

Searching around brings me to this thread to inquire more..

Keep in mind anything that is interchangeable with the auto and manual is 100% available in case anything needed to complete the transition should require the repurposing of parts.

Instead of wastefully searching for a donor car, I'm just going to depend on u-pull it yards to acquire any necessary parts.

With the above known and in mind, let's discuss the trans transition!

1.] What is all needed for electronics/electrical?
PCM, TCM, engine harness from the auto able to be left alone? Main concern is functionality. If the auto harness only requires a slight PNP connector modification [ ie. ground to bypass starter and addressing reverse lights (not a real concern for reverse lights). ] and everything else can be used while being plug and play, it make this area pretty simple. I couldn't imagine the speed sensors would differ in connections if I stayed with a 96-98 manual for use.
2.] Drive-line components similarities?
Are the axles same spline and lengths for both ps and ds? Brackets for the mounts same? It's a long shot, but are the mounts going to the brackets same?

3.] Power-train expectations and common changes?
Flex plate and t-converter will obviously need to be tossed out for a needed flywheel, cd, pp, tob, and master/slave combo. Thinking for anything that might be a show stopper, I'm not foreseeing anything at this time, but I could be wrong... I've been wrong in the past. Any of my friends (especially those female) can attest to that!

4.] Cooling system doesnt set off any red flags that would mandate needed changes.
Radiator would just omit the auxiliary cooler, which is a plus for any reason an aftermarket auto radiator is installed; breaching systems are awfully too common.

5.] What to avoid, to consider, and maybe to take special note of?
Would not want any surprises, but I'd be foolish to assume that. Limiting those surprises, however, would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Post by **erikv11** » 12 Nov 2016, 12:01

Give this a good read, then see what questions remain: https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums ... hp?t=70637

If you want more info this is also very good, but not as well organized: http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/topic/78 ... nual-swap/

beigg · Post by **beigg** » 12 Nov 2016, 18:47

erikv11 wrote:Give this a good read, then see what questions remain: https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums ... hp?t=70637

If you want more info this is also very good, but not as well organized: http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/topic/78 ... nual-swap/

Thanks for the link!
I did see those threads, yet they dont address the TCU area much and I am still thinking about the flywheel rpm sensor wiring terminal reversing.

Pretty certain I can just leave the auto TCU as it is and not have to change anything. Correct?

The rpm sensor terminals; If I am tracking it correctly, my year requires no changing since it's a 97.

EPDM shouldn't be an issue on my end. Few local hydraulic places that are known for supplying SAE and Metric lines that I'm confident for this hard to find part.

Post by **abscate** » 13 Nov 2016, 05:16

I can reflash your TCM for you to work with your manual for a modest fee. I have a new nanotechnology one thats so small you cant see it.

( Humor...no TCM)

beigg · Post by **beigg** » 13 Nov 2016, 06:05

A little confused by the response especially after reading the previous swaps, I am assuming that the manual 850's dont use any tcu and to complete the swap the automatic module would be removed permanently.

If the above is true, what would happen if it was left in place when it would not be installed for a manually equipped 850?

Post by **tryingbe** » 13 Nov 2016, 06:09

beigg wrote:
1.] What is all needed for electronics/electrical?
PCM, TCM, engine harness from the auto able to be left alone? Main concern is functionality. If the auto harness only requires a slight PNP connector modification [ ie. ground to bypass starter and addressing reverse lights (not a real concern for reverse lights). ] and everything else can be used while being plug and play, it make this area pretty simple. I couldn't imagine the speed sensors would differ in connections if I stayed with a 96-98 manual for use.

There is no TCM in manual. TCM wiring needs to be modified as mentioned. http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpost. ... tcount=237

96+ cars do not use speed sensor, they used ABS sensor for speed. I left the speed sensor alone and not connected in my trans.

As for PCM, that's a little tricky since there is no Turbo Manual car sold in US so you can't just get ECU for it.
Three options,
1. You can use your stock ECU, though your check engine light might come on. You may or may not pass emission because of the CEL.
2. For a 94-95 car, I would recommend using 0261203627 bin and flash that into your ECU. The 627 bin is what I use, down side is the 627 is not an OBDII calibration so it will not let a 96+ car pass emission. https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums ... hp?t=76990
3. For 94-97 car, you can also get a 98 M4.4 (from any 98 turbo x70) ecu, modify the bin file and use it with your car. You can the proper manual calibration + OBDII. Down side is you will loose OBDI capabilities if you have a 94-95. http://m44.wikia.com/wiki/M44_Wiki

Note, a manual ECU bin will holds the RPM momentarily when shifting, that is normal. 627 bin does not hold RPM.

beigg wrote:

2.] Drive-line components similarities?
Are the axles same spline and lengths for both ps and ds? Brackets for the mounts same? It's a long shot, but are the mounts going to the brackets same?

4.] Cooling system doesnt set off any red flags that would mandate needed changes.
Radiator would just omit the auxiliary cooler, which is a plus for any reason an aftermarket auto radiator is installed; breaching systems are awfully too common.

All your auto stuff for drive live will work. No changes at all. Manual cars have thicker axles shafts, but cv boots are not available last time I checked. Auto axles work just fine.

Nothing needs to be done to the coolant system. Though, I took the opportunity to install an all aluminum radiator, an all aluminum intercooler, and an external oil cooler.

beigg wrote:

3.] Power-train expectations and common changes?
Flex plate and t-converter will obviously need to be tossed out for a needed flywheel, cd, pp, tob, and master/slave combo. Thinking for anything that might be a show stopper, I'm not foreseeing anything at this time, but I could be wrong... I've been wrong in the past. Any of my friends (especially those female) can attest to that!

Buy new flywheel bolts. I got the bolts from Marinepartsexpress.com volvo penta part # 9454743 $1.88ea x 10 + $8 shipping.
R clutch, best clutch for the money http://www.tascaparts.com/oe-volvo/272218 Does not come with throw-out bearing
Depends on the trans you get, 93-97 uses external salve cylinder, 98 and newer uses internal salve cylinder. They use different throw-out bearing.
I bought new master cylinder and hydraulics hoses. I would buy new master and salve cylinders, they are a pain to change with the trans in the car.

beigg wrote:

5.] What to avoid, to consider, and maybe to take special note of?
Would not want any surprises, but I'd be foolish to assume that. Limiting those surprises, however, would be greatly appreciated!

WARNINGS
12 point 17mm socket need for the flex plate bolts.

Most car's flywheel bolts are Triple Square bolts. You will need a special tool, trox can work, but it might round out the bolt head.
https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-10-Piece-T ... ds=xzn+bit

Length for flywheel bolts and flex plate bolts are different. NOT INTERCHANGEABLE.

Flywheel: 97 and early car came with single mass flywheel, that is what you want. 98 and later car came with dual pass flywheel, you can use the transmission and hydraulic lines but leave the flywheel/clutch/pressure plate at the yard. https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums ... hp?t=76415

I used aftermarket shift boot and shift knob since the stock stuff was torn. You don't "need' the manual center console.

Buy and install the snabb short throw shift kit, I use the middle settings for my car.
http://www.snabb.us/Short-Throw-Shifter ... _p_19.html

850 uses different pedals than x70.

Get one or two auto shifter clip a the transmission end, you'll need it.

Get the bushings http://www.ebay.com/itm/VOLVO-BRASS-SHI ... 0730473309

Do not lose the blue rubber washers on the injectors. Be sure to reuse them, other wise, the orange injector will come loose and you will have a massive fuel leak. Ask me how I know.

I found it easier to swap the brake/clutch pedals over instead of switching the entire pedal box, tight places to work. I only have the cruise control cut-out switch install on my brake pedal instead of on both clutch and brake pedal.

Brake light switch might not be the same, use whatever switch that comes with the pedals. I just cut and spice in the wires.

"Flywheel rpm sensor wiring terminal reversing" you might not need it. My advise is don't bother with it until you have the swap done and find the car doesn't start. I put a 95 flywheel on a 98 car and the car starts up fine each time.

beigg · Post by **beigg** » 13 Nov 2016, 18:25

Great write up tryingbe!

Dual mass setup is def something I'm trying to avoid.

Regarding the emissions, that i am willing to iron out later if I should need to. As of now, the attention is to the volvo functioning for use.

Post by **polskamafia mjl** » 13 Nov 2016, 22:18

beigg wrote:
EPDM shouldn't be an issue on my end. Few local hydraulic places that are known for supplying SAE and Metric lines that I'm confident for this hard to find part.

Let me know how this works out. I still need to replace mine.

You don't need the TCU once you're done.

Automatic Axles will fit but you do need to replace the axle seals with manual ones.

beigg · Post by **beigg** » 14 Nov 2016, 07:04

Are there any transmissions to avoid? Weak points for certain manuals, do they even differ from the internal to external slaves? I am also wondering if any volvo i5 manual trans would work for a FWD only 850?

Would like the best realistic manual trans for this swap and not make it more difficult than it has to be.

Post by **tryingbe** » 14 Nov 2016, 18:54

beigg wrote:Are there any transmissions to avoid?

Broken ones.

beigg wrote:Weak points for certain manuals, do they even differ from the internal to external slaves? I am also wondering if any volvo i5 manual trans would work for a FWD only 850?

All M56L and M56H will work.
Transmission, shifter, shifter cables, hydraulic are easy. 850, x70 will work.
Single Mass Flywheel, pedals are 850 only.

beigg wrote:
Would like the best realistic manual trans for this swap and not make it more difficult than it has to be.

Find a 850 parts car.