R ECU drop in Topic is solved

Post by **abscate** » 07 Apr 2019, 06:03

ECU are 25 bucks from Harry’s....is there a small business in flashing them to an R ECU for drop in for -1998 Volvos?

Bastards need not apply.

Post by **RickHaleParker** » 07 Apr 2019, 06:27

abscate wrote: ↑07 Apr 2019, 06:03 ECU are 25 bucks from Harry’s....is there a small business in flashing them to an R ECU for drop in for -1998 Volvos?

I kind of look into this before. At first glance it looks like a Motronic cloner could be put together for ~ $50.00.
I never had any need or a motivator to go past theory.

Sommerfeldt · Post by **Sommerfeldt** » 07 Apr 2019, 07:09

Flashing the ECU is really not hard or expensive.
You need that USB to OBDII cable, some leads and the tiny connectors that fit the pins on the ECU and the OBDII connector, a 16V power source and an old laptop.
Reliable stock bin files are available for 20 euros, and can be flashed on as many ECUs as you want. Or free, if you trust files from internet forums...

I'd think a lot of people would be interested if they knew it could be done. My T5 certainly became seriously more spirited with the T5-R bin on its brain.

14 psi and 250+ HP is fun.

- S

Post by **erikv11** » 07 Apr 2019, 08:28

abscate wrote: ↑07 Apr 2019, 06:03 ECU are 25 bucks from Harry’s....is there a small business in flashing them to an R ECU for drop in for -1998 Volvos?

Bastards need not apply.

The only actual businesses I am aware of pay attention to all the details and offer a full tuning service. There is no single one-size-fits-all, drop-in ECU version but at least two (and up to like eight or 16) of them, so to distribute a basic flash to others the buyer and seller would both need to pay attention to some details. That's why it has remained largely in the domain of people who run actual ECU tuning services.

Pretty cheap to DIY, actual cost numbers depend on what equipment you've already got. As per Sommerfeldt, complete list is old Windows laptop, USB to OBD cable (get the right Chinese cable, not the worthless Chinese cable), benchtop power source, couple pieces of free software, grab the ECU connector out of a junkyard car. Couple hours to assemble the rig the first time, then it is ready to go whenever. Takes 15 minutes to start up the rig and reprogram a Motronic 4.4 ECU. Make it 30 minutes if you need to mess around with different programming options. Thank the (gasp!) Volvospeed community for gathering and distributing this knowledge, it would be very cryptic to get this done without their many hours of work and sharing of the results.

Very easy to do over and over again once you know your own vehicle(s), a little tricky to get right the first time every time.

Flashing for a 98, 96, 95 or 94 is straightforward, for a 97 it is quirky as the tuners still haven't completely figured out how to get that year's A/C to fuily cooperate. Year of manufacture tells you how to set the basic variables: which injectors / is it an LPT or HPT engine, whether the A/C is set up for m4.3 or m4.4. Mass produced clones would delete SAS and EGR, be either specific for 98 or for 94-96, and then you'd adjust any emissions hardware in the car to match one of those ECU setups. Otherwise make very sure the exact emissions equipment on the car is known at flash time, or the ECU will throw a petty CEL and cost creeps up due to the fees for shipping the ECU back and forth to do the very easy tweaks and re-flash. Or do it yourself!

Afterthought: you could work up a few ECUs for each model year that would be harmless to swap in and out until you find the one that doesn't give a CEL in your car. Then the buyer either ships back the other ECUs or eats the cost of them all. Still cumbersome, the market may not be there, hence why the tuners are currently the only source ...

Post by **ZionXIX** » 07 Apr 2019, 09:14

So then is it safe to say I could get a 1996 turbo ecu and flash it to an R ecu? Or can I use a non turbo ecu to do the same?

Post by **erikv11** » 07 Apr 2019, 09:20

No, the donor ECU must be a turbo Motronic 4.4 ECU. A 98 turbo ECU is the universal donor.

https://m44.fandom.com/wiki/ECU_Flashing

Post by **Chuck W** » 07 Apr 2019, 09:30

erikv11 wrote: ↑07 Apr 2019, 08:28

Flashing for a 98, 96, 95 or 94 is straightforward, for a 97 it is quirky as the tuners still haven't completely figured out how to get that year's A/C to fuily cooperate.

The issue for '97 is basically LPT vs HPT cars.

Now that the weather is warming back up, I'll be able to fully test the hybrid bins that were worked up for the '97 GLT (Which appears to be the oddball of the bunch, as it was an M4.4 car with the "old" AC controls). I didn't have any issues with my '97 T5 (M4.3 car) when I tested the "standard VS" flashed M4.4 ECU there.

Post by **erikv11** » 07 Apr 2019, 10:23

Yes, the quirky 97's are the LPTs. All m4.3 cars are straightforward for A/C.

tardcart · Post by **tardcart** » 07 Apr 2019, 10:36

There is no point to getting the R tune, I think its 1/10 of a second quicker in the quarter mile. at least in the 850's. The bare minimum is the ipd tune which is fun for a work car that isn't at stage zero. only requirement is PVC and premium gas.

Sommerfeldt · Post by **Sommerfeldt** » 07 Apr 2019, 14:20

tardcart wrote: ↑07 Apr 2019, 10:36 There is no point to getting the R tune, I think its 1/10 of a second quicker in the quarter mile. at least in the 850's. The bare minimum is the ipd tune which is fun for a work car that isn't at stage zero. only requirement is PVC and premium gas.

Okay, Negative Nancy. How often do you pull quarter miles? I don't do that very often, but what I do know is that I have around 14 psi of boost, up from 9 (should have been 12 up from 9.7, but my boost gauge don't lie. I've tested.

). It's faster off the line, spools the turbo faster (TCV DC is different, as is LDR) and is generally quicker.
Also, don't run any kind of tune on a car that isn't Stage 0.

No point? Try it.

Also be aware that you don't need an M4.4 ECU to flash a new tune - you can flash an M4.3 R tune on an M4.3 ECU, which is what I did to go from the T5 to the T5R (or R - they're the same). If you want to switch to an M4.4 from an M4.3, that's a different beast, and I have yet to make it work especially well, even with ErikV setting up the start point and then me adapting to Euro market specs. Just doesn't quite work. BUT - flashing an R tune on a T5 box, either M4.4 or M4.3 isn't hard when you've done it a few times.

Get the right BIN file for the right market - i.e. don't use BINs for US market on a Euro spec car - and you're good to go. The files are mostly all the same, with variants for emissions and transmission, i.e. auto/manual. The LPT is the hard one, of course, since it's a different setup. iPD says they get 230 HP out of those, but I don't know of a stock file that you could just drop in one of those to do anything like it. HPTs are easy, M4.4 or M4.3.

- S