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Volvo XC90 ABS problems

Help, Advice, Owners' Discussion and DIY Tutorials on Volvo XC90s. The XC90 proved to be very popular, and very good for Volvo's sales numbers, since its introduction in model year 2003 (North America).
DLW
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Volvo XC90 ABS problems

Post by DLW » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:09 am

Description of ABS/AWD Problems 2004 Volvo XC90

1. When the car is first started in the day the Brake Failure Stop Safely message comes on within about 15 seconds. At the same time the trip odometer goes to blanks. The Brake Warning symbol and ABS warning symbol come on as well.
2. There is no ABS or AWD while the error message is displayed.
3. The message disappears after some time and the numbers on the trip odometer reappear. ABS and AWD functions are restored.
4. Around Christmas the time period seemed to be exactly 3 minutes. Now it seems variable. It can be as short as 3 minutes but one cold morning at – 14 C it was 9 minutes.
5. As soon as the Brake Failure message disappears a Check Engine System Required warning message appears. The Brake Warning symbol and ABS warning symbol go off.
6. The cruise control may or may not work at this point but I have stopped turned off the engine and on restart the cruise is working.
7. The Brake Failure does not come on every time the car is stopped and started. There is also a time variable to that but I’m not sure what the longest period is that it will not appear. I would guess up to 5 minutes is OK and after that the message reappears.
8. The above symptoms are described on older Volvo's and can be fixed by reoldering joints in the ABS unit.
9. I contacted a guy called Vic Rocha in California and he says the 2004 ABS unit can't be repaired.
10. There's a place here in Canada says they can fix the ABS module.

Anyone got any experience one way or the other? Right now I believe Vic and it looks like I need a new module.

Why would Volvo be so stupid to keep making something for years that keeps failing so predictably the same way?



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Re: Volvo XC90 ABS problems

Post by MadeInJapan » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:51 am

Welcome to MVS.
Unfortunately I've never heard of ABS issues on your particular Volvo...I'm pretty certain it's not going to be the ABS module itself- never heard of these failing after 2001 or 2. That said, most likely in your wheel sensors or is software related. Or....there is a shorting going on from your battery terminal(s)...check all of your wiring for corrosion including your ground wires- clean if necessary and reattach.


'98 S70 T5 Emrld Grn Met/Beige Tons of Upgrades Mobil-1
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DLW
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Re: Volvo XC90 ABS problems

Post by DLW » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:06 pm

Wow. I didn't expect that response. It was diagnosed as the ABS unit by the dealer after 4 hours of diddling around with a laptop and cleaning contacts. $400. They also diagnosed that the Steering Angle Sensor needed changing. Total cost $2000 plus labour.

So I have to wonder what would have happened if they'd gone ahead. Would they have fessed up that there was nothing wrong or lied and said that not only did those parts need replacing but there were defective wheel sensors and bad grounds.

Now I don't know what to do. The stuff you are suggesting is not really do it yourself is it?

That's really interesting that you have never heard of one of these failing after 2001/2. So my comment above that they haven't fixed the problem is unwarranted. I wonder why the problem is time related. I suspected software as well but the dealer says "No it's the ABS unit and the software is up to date"

And I suppose I would be wasting my time to ask Volvo.



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Re: Volvo XC90 ABS problems

Post by VCA » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:11 pm

DLW wrote:Wow. I didn't expect that response. It was diagnosed as the ABS unit by the dealer after 4 hours of diddling around with a laptop and cleaning contacts. $400. They also diagnosed that the Steering Angle Sensor needed changing. Total cost $2000 plus labour.

So I have to wonder what would have happened if they'd gone ahead. Would they have fessed up that there was nothing wrong or lied and said that not only did those parts need replacing but there were defective wheel sensors and bad grounds.

Now I don't know what to do. The stuff you are suggesting is not really do it yourself is it?

That's really interesting that you have never heard of one of these failing after 2001/2. So my comment above that they haven't fixed the problem is unwarranted. I wonder why the problem is time related. I suspected software as well but the dealer says "No it's the ABS unit and the software is up to date"

And I suppose I would be wasting my time to ask Volvo.
When the dealer did the diagnosis, did they give you a sheet with the fault codes they found or the reason they wanted to change the SAS? [My dealer does this, that's why I ask] I've only seen one SAS be changed on any Volvo for any reason.


2008 S80 T6 AWD
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Responsible for the care of a '92 960 and an '07 S60R

DLW
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Re: Volvo XC90 ABS problems

Post by DLW » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:42 pm

Yup.

This is the service record scanned and OCRd. Not sure if you were asking out of curiosity or if you know what the codes mean. It's all Greek to me though now I look at it I see that some tests have been done for poor grounds and shorts so maybe that covers some of the points MIJ was making.

TECH READ CODES, STORED: ECM-6400, BRAKE PEDAL SENSOR SIGNAL MISSING. CEM-1A5E COMMUNICATION WITH SAS MODULE SIGNAL MISSING. CEM-1A5F, COMMUNICATION WITH BCM MODULE MISSING, FAULT TRACE AS PER VIDA INSTRUCTIONS. TEST FUSES 11B/14,11B/i9/11C/17, 11C/22, ALL FUSES-OK. CONNECT BREAK OUT BOX TO BQM, TEST VOLTAGE AT A=l, A=32, A=4, 12V-OK. TEST WITH 2AMP BULB AT GROUND POINTS A=l6, A=:47 - OK. CONNECT SCOPE AND CHECK CAN HIGH SIGANL AT A=11 AND CAN LOW SIGNAL AT A=15-0K. NO SHORT TO GROUND OR POSITIVE. CAN H MIN 2.00V, MAX 4.59, AVG. 2.96V. CAN L MIN .54V, MAX 3.23, AVG 2.10. CHECK POWER, GROUND AND CAN SIGNAL AT SAS MODULE. CAN A=6, 1.88V, 4.49V AVG 2.85V-OK, CAN LOW A=15 .71V-2.98V AVG 2.0V-OK, A=l VOLTAGE SUPPLY-12V. GROUND A=16-GOOD. NO SHORT TO GROUND OR POSITIVE. REMOVE WINDSHIELD COWL AND INSP PINS AT CONN 54/3 A&B INSP PINS AT CEM-OK. TECH DETERMINED VEHICLE WILL REQUIRE STEERING ANGLE SENSOR MODULE AND ABS CONTROL MODULE AS WELL AS RELEVANT SOFTWARE.



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Re: Volvo XC90 ABS problems

Post by VCA » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:26 pm

DLW wrote:Yup.

This is the service record scanned and OCRd. Not sure if you were asking out of curiosity or if you know what the codes mean. It's all Greek to me though now I look at it I see that some tests have been done for poor grounds and shorts so maybe that covers some of the points MIJ was making.

TECH READ CODES, STORED: ECM-6400, BRAKE PEDAL SENSOR SIGNAL MISSING. CEM-1A5E COMMUNICATION WITH SAS MODULE SIGNAL MISSING. CEM-1A5F, COMMUNICATION WITH BCM MODULE MISSING, FAULT TRACE AS PER VIDA INSTRUCTIONS. TEST FUSES 11B/14,11B/i9/11C/17, 11C/22, ALL FUSES-OK. CONNECT BREAK OUT BOX TO BQM, TEST VOLTAGE AT A=l, A=32, A=4, 12V-OK. TEST WITH 2AMP BULB AT GROUND POINTS A=l6, A=:47 - OK. CONNECT SCOPE AND CHECK CAN HIGH SIGANL AT A=11 AND CAN LOW SIGNAL AT A=15-0K. NO SHORT TO GROUND OR POSITIVE. CAN H MIN 2.00V, MAX 4.59, AVG. 2.96V. CAN L MIN .54V, MAX 3.23, AVG 2.10. CHECK POWER, GROUND AND CAN SIGNAL AT SAS MODULE. CAN A=6, 1.88V, 4.49V AVG 2.85V-OK, CAN LOW A=15 .71V-2.98V AVG 2.0V-OK, A=l VOLTAGE SUPPLY-12V. GROUND A=16-GOOD. NO SHORT TO GROUND OR POSITIVE. REMOVE WINDSHIELD COWL AND INSP PINS AT CONN 54/3 A&B INSP PINS AT CEM-OK. TECH DETERMINED VEHICLE WILL REQUIRE STEERING ANGLE SENSOR MODULE AND ABS CONTROL MODULE AS WELL AS RELEVANT SOFTWARE.
Darn, the ABS module can throw all those codes. Have the BCM replaced and software installed :( --don't do the SAS at this time as it's less likely than the BCM to be bad (and if it is bad, it won't throw brake codes).


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Responsible for the care of a '92 960 and an '07 S60R

MadeInJapan
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Re: Volvo XC90 ABS problems

Post by MadeInJapan » Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:59 pm

Sorry, been gone all day- sorry that I don't know these cars as well as I do the pre P2 models. I'm watching this thread with great curiosity as we also have a P2 model, although it's not an XC90.


'98 S70 T5 Emrld Grn Met/Beige Tons of Upgrades Mobil-1
'04 V70 2.5T Red/Taupe Some Upgrades Mobil-1
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'07 S60 2.5T Blue/Taupe- my kid's Volvo

DLW
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DLW

Re: Volvo XC90 ABS problems

Post by DLW » Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:57 am

The BCM? Google says that's a Body Control Module. Which is different than the ABS module?



MadeInJapan
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Re: Volvo XC90 ABS problems

Post by MadeInJapan » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:39 am

BCM would be Brake Control Module


'98 S70 T5 Emrld Grn Met/Beige Tons of Upgrades Mobil-1
'04 V70 2.5T Red/Taupe Some Upgrades Mobil-1
'07 S40 T5 AWD 6 speed manual! Silver/Black Stage1 Heico & Elevate
'07 S60 2.5T Blue/Taupe- my kid's Volvo

DLW
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DLW

Re: Volvo XC90 ABS problems

Post by DLW » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:51 am

So consensus is that ABS is OK and the problem(s) is/are originating with the BCM (but the dealer did not arrive at that prognosis)



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