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2004 S60 Troubleshoot heat soak ECM, BCM, CEM, & TCM

Help, Advice, Owners' Discussion and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's stylish, distinctive "P2" platform cars.

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hankb
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Volvo Repair Database 2004 S60 Troubleshoot heat soak ECM, BCM, CEM, & TCM

Post by hankb » Fri May 01, 2015 8:40 pm

Hello!

This is my second post on this forum regarding the same unsolved problem - you can find my first saga here on this site.

That post was a year ago - it describes intermittent trouble with the DIM failing, ABS lighting up, and the transmission jerking violently, ONLY in warm temperatures. The problem has resumed this year and once again I'm determined to find a resolution.

I purchased a VIDA DiCE system and have been collecting information and screenshots for a few days. My hope is that someone here will recognize the problem based on this information and offer me a lead.

I can tell you in advance that the DIM, TCM, CEM, and BCM are believed to be in working order. The CEM and BCM are from XemodeX and the TCM was replaced by the dealership. I haven't replaced the ECM because it is very expensive and ECM functions seem to be fine in general.

I have developed my own suspicions based on the codes, but I am a novice, so I don't want to mislead those who know better. If you would like any other information that I might provide PLEASE don't hesitate to ask. I am literally desperate to get this car working correctly.

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hankb
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Re: 2004 S60 Electrical problem between ECM, BCM, CEM, & TCM

Post by hankb » Sat May 02, 2015 1:28 pm

Kind of bummed that no one has shared any ideas.. but i did go ahead an purchase a new Speed Sensor and I've emailed XeMODeX with some questions about the ECM.



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Re: 2004 S60 Electrical problem between ECM, BCM, CEM, & TCM

Post by doublebug » Sat May 02, 2015 4:03 pm

There is CEM-E000 error code. This means that CEM control module registers serious interference on the high speed network. So at this time you need to check signal on the Hi speed CAN bus using oscilloscope. So if signal is bad try to disconnect modules one by one to try to detect which module is faulty. (without disconnecting battery) If all modules are ok. You still need to try to replace CEM (because you cannot just disconnect it). Since you have Dice I can help transfer sw from original module to new one. (find some on the junkyard from similar car. you can look for V70, S80, S60 & xc90 MY 2004). if after replacing CEM you still suffer form the issue you need to look the issue in the harness (white&greed twisted pair)


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Re: 2004 S60 Electrical problem between ECM, BCM, CEM, & TCM

Post by draser » Sat May 02, 2015 6:09 pm

Pretty long saga. Comm faults are hard to find. It sounds like hi speed can. Since it's humidity related it can be anywhere where connectors are involved. I'd measure hi speed can resistance to chassis and between the twisted wires on a dry/cool day when car runs okay and take same measurements on a hot and humid day when she's acting up. Hopefully there will be some difference but I'd use a digital vom with 3 decimals. Now between the wires there are terminating resistors of 120 ohms and I believe there are 2 in parallel so meter will read 60 ohms for a good network. Between each wire and chassis I'd imagine there is a high resistance in the order of kilo or mega ohms. If there's a measurable diff dry vs humid then you could try disconnecting modules while metering the network.


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Re: 2004 S60 Electrical problem between ECM, BCM, CEM, & TCM

Post by jimmy57 » Sat May 02, 2015 9:22 pm

Does it happpen often enough so that something you do will be known in a couple of days?

I would start simple.
The ECM is connected through the TCM. Remove both and inspect terminals and pins. IF you use a wiring diagram you should be able to determine the CAN terminals and corresponding pins on modules.
With age connector fretting and light corrosion is causing connection issues with CAN leads and those two control units have the double whammy of being in high heat locations that are not very weatherproof. You could even apply a very sparing amount of copper paste to those terminals in base plugs. If you apply too much cross connection can occur to other terminals. There are special purpose products for such purposes. I do not recommend Stabilant-22 as it has adhesive properties and can be abusive to terminals if the unit has to be disconnected again.



hankb
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Re: 2004 S60 Electrical problem between ECM, BCM, CEM, & TCM

Post by hankb » Sun May 03, 2015 8:16 am

Thanks so much for all of the responses. My intuition had led me to suspect a problem with the VSS (since it kept complaining about faulty signal) or the ECU (ECM) because it is usually the first module to fault. Yesterday I went digging around and pulled out the speed sensors from the transmission and found some kind of silver paste on one of them, I wiped it off and re-installed. I also went through all of the connectors that I could access and sprayed contact cleaner in them.

Re: Doublebug
> So at this time you need to check signal on the Hi speed CAN bus using oscilloscope.

This sounds like fun - I've been looking for a reason to buy an oscilloscope, I'm interested in trying this.

> You still need to try to replace CEM

I have replaced the CEM 3 times with units from XeMODeX. I am highly confident that it is functioning correctly.

Re: Draser

> I'd measure hi speed can resistance to chassis and between the twisted wires

This is similar advice to what I've picked up elsewhere, but I don't understand it so well. I can use a multimeter for basic measures, but I'll need to research how to do this correctly.

Re: Jimmy57

> The ECM is connected through the TCM. Remove both and inspect terminals and pins.

I'm concerned about the connectiion at the base of the ECM/TCM box, but I'm waiting for the removal tool to arrive. The fault occurs up to 50 times a day when the weather conditions are right, but it's difficult to know exactly when that is - there seems to be some factor that I'm not aware of that increases the likelihood of faulting, I'm considering absolute humidity or barometric pressure. There are some days when I expect it to act up but it's fine, and then there's yesterday - I used DiCE to do 16 "Erase All" and restart on a 4 mile drive. I do think the multimeter/oscilloscope approach is my next step - and having XeMODeX determine if my ECU will fault under their test conditions (haven't heard back from them yet).



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Re: 2004 S60 Electrical problem between ECM, BCM, CEM, & TCM

Post by draser » Sun May 03, 2015 5:23 pm

Hank,
Using a digital VOM (volt, ohm meter) is pretty straightforward. Meter is set to ohms and most are auto range. So you do not have to select a scale. In this case 2 type of measurements are required. First is a low resistance of about 60 ohms between the twisted pair of hi speed can, wiring diagram needed to see where the can wires land on connectors. Second measurement is between each can wire and chassis and is looking for a much higher resistance, but the meter will self range and give you the reading. This is important because if you manually set the meter on the high scale and try to read a small resistance such as 60 ohms, meter will show a 0 resistance due to the wrong scale setting, so you will not have the correct resolution. Then again any questions you may have just post here. This test requires some accuracy hence the need of some decimal points on the meter. The physics of the test are based on stray currents that are posible due to dirt/dust that may get in connectors which may get conductive in certain conditions such as moisture. And hopefully it will also detect increase contact resistance between connector pin and wire itself. I keep saying hopefully because we are looking at subtle changes is resistance in certain conditions, but it's worth a shot. The other thing is location of CEM and having a bundle of wires on top coming from outside of cabin. I would examine all those connectors to make sure they're clean on mating side, and on backside there is no green or white oxide, the pins are not loose (pull on each wire frokm back). Look for any leaks or deposits.


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hankb
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Re: 2004 S60 Electrical problem between ECM, BCM, CEM, & TCM

Post by hankb » Mon May 04, 2015 4:58 pm

Wow - thanks for the detailed information. I found a youtube series that shows the same process you described. I tested as many points as I could, specifically between the CEM and TCM/ECU but I didn't find anything spurious. There were no signs of corrosion or loose wires ... except for the connection that I mangled when I tried to close it and pinched the orange weather jacket :( I also cleaned the contacts with DeoxIT, probably 14 in total, but the fault occurred again this afternoon. I did hear back from XeMODeX about an ECU repair, so I'm very hopeful that will help. Through this process I've realized that my type of fault falls into one of 5 categories (in rank of likely occurrence):

1. BCM
2. HS CAN wiring issue
3. TCM
4. CEM
5. ECU

It's kind of crazy that I learned this list by stumbling - I would sincerely appreciate any feedback to improve it. I have ruled out everything except the ECU at this point. I have exhuastively ruled out the BCM, TCM, and CEM - so that only leave a small chance of the problem remaining with the HS CAN; at this point I'm feeling very confident that the only wild card is the ECU.



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Re: 2004 S60 Electrical problem between ECM, BCM, CEM, & TCM

Post by vtl » Mon May 04, 2015 9:08 pm

hankb wrote:This sounds like fun - I've been looking for a reason to buy an oscilloscope, I'm interested in trying this.
Unless you want to see how exactly signals are messed up, you may cut cost drastically and buy a cheap logic analyzer, which is able to decode CAN. My favorite one is a Chinese fake of Saleae for about $10. It works despite the fact it is a reprogrammed JTAG cable! :)

The problem with oscilloscope is that it needs to be able to decode CAN messages and verify checksums. That functionality certainly adds a few hundreds on top of already not very cheap tool. But if you decide to go the scope way - Rigol DS2072A is a blast! :)


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Re: 2004 S60 Electrical problem between ECM, BCM, CEM, & TCM

Post by abscate » Tue May 05, 2015 2:50 am

I'm happy to loan you my scope if we can find a way to get it to you,,, :-(


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