Matt's Volvo Blog #4 - Volvo Rot :: Discussion area ::

[matthew1]

>>> Volvo Rot <<<

In Matt's Volvo Blog #4 I explain what I call "Volvo Rot". I hope you find it interesting and do contribute to the discussion of it. It's one of my more esoteric posts.

Please discuss that post here.

[jblackburn]

These cars just aren't the kind of cars that you can get by with owning without occasionally checking up on things by yourself. Even as the newer S60/V70/S80 models begin to get older, they will become more maintenance-intensive, but they are well worth it if you want to keep your car longer than most newer cars will last.

Ignoring a clogged PCV system would be a good example for this as well. (oops )

Don't do like I did! If you're getting pressure out the oil dipstick, change/clean out the system and oil separator. By spending $100 for a kit, and a couple hours of annoyance slaving away under the hood of the darn things, you may save yourself $900+ in the long run.

I could see someone ignoring this and not looking for telltale signs, running the engine out of oil completely, and destroying the whole engine beyond point of repair.

Similarly, I have seen several AWD models for sale with a bad fuel pump (hard task on an AWD model), or stating that 'there is something wrong with the AWD system, but otherwise good car'. They can be easily made into FWD only, and good for many miles to come.

My car's becoming quite a maintenance hog lately, but it's just too good of a car to just get rid of. Sometimes I wish I had just gone the easy route and bought a boring, bland Toyota Camry, but I love the way the Volvo drives way too much. But between rear brakes, a bad CV joint, oil change, bad thermostat, trans. flush, leaking heater core, a new battery, a possibly dying alternator, and of course blowing out my rear seal all within the last 4 months alone (not to mention the blasted evaporator), it has been very hard on the wallet. However, I know that fixing these things though will make it a good car for many years still, and that at only 165K miles it will last for a couple years to come!

That said, if you're not mechanically inclined or able to do at least some basic maintenance and checks yourself, don't own a Volvo. Dealer/independent mechanic labor charges are way too high, and parts are expensive compared to other brands. "Dealer maintenance" is simply not enough when they begin to get 10+ years old, as the dealer's don't recommend certain fluid changes, etc. However, I think the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages, and it makes mine worth it to me.

[RobTheModd]

I love how you used the super tank 850 series for your explanation.

True while not much more then a timing belt going can take out a well made Volvo. They are expensive to fix and maintain.
I must have gotten lucky with mine since after 16 years the most that has been done to the AC system is the new blower fan i picked up 30$USD. Which luckily can be found at most local junk yards!
There is a reason why I will 9 times out of 10 suggest people to try their local junk yard before turning to stores to purchase a product. Usually the part can be found for a tenth of the cost you would pay online or a local auto store. and sure you might have to pull it yourself... but still. an hour of work vs a week of waiting. 30$ vs 300$ That to me is very much worth it.

When I originally got my Volvo I did not see it as anything more then a tank, due to hearing things only about their safety.
Now after owning my 854 for a little over a year I have come to know Volvo as not just a tank on rubber wheels, but as a performance, sport, reliable, tank that can get you from point A to point B either quickly and in style. Or nice and slow.
Now a year later, I can proudly say... I am a Volvo owner.
Before the Volvo, I had a Mazda Rx7. Which was modded up to the brink of engine failure... which happened. causing me to get something within my price range at the time. Which happened to be that black, boxy, headliner falling in, purple window tinted, Volvo 854 GLT.
Sure I went from a Rex to a GLT but ever since that day I do not believe I will own anything other then a Volvo! Be it a 854 GLT, Turbo, R or a newer hot off the line model. Volvo took me for a ride and has never let go yet.

Sure those of us with the older models WELL out of their warrenty may never face the eyes of a Volvo dealership to fix our car... but why would we want to? I mean the thrill and joy of knowing for a fact that that repair was done by you and dont right is better then knowing or hopping that the random mechanic fixed one thing and didn't cause something else to brake making you return 2 weeks later for another fix.

I am proud to say, I own and drive a 1996 854 GLT and when I first bought it, my mechanic skills towards a euro car were much less.... well a rock was better then me at that time!

Volvo, Its not a question of will you drive. Its a question of can you.

Btw... Im still looking for that black rear bumper if anyone decides to become a Volvo rotter/killer. lol

[IVIUSTANG]

I dread the day my T5 gets into an accident, my car was keyed two years ago and the damage was estimated at $3000, I was glad when they fixed it. Considering the value of this car must be less than $6000 now. Driving like a dream eating Mercedes, BMWs and Northstar V8's for lunch; these cars were ahead of their time. I love the surprised look on the punky Vtec drivers face; beaten by an "old mans" Volvo This car has aged better than any car I have ever seen!

- Jesse

[Ozark Lee]

Sadly much of the "Volvo Rot" is self inflicted and perhaps driven by the marketing department.

The engineering on the cars is generally superb but the finish materials are another story. Long ago Volvo was on the Vanguard of the "Green Movement" and all components were made in an "environmentally friendly" way. The result is that we have cars with horrible adhesives and unstable plastic parts.

I suppose it sells a lot of cars in Vermont but the long term effects have been horrible to the owners and dubious at best for the environment. Is it better to use an "environmentally friendly" adhesive on initial construction only to have to replace the headliner or other panels with glue that actually sticks 10 years later or to just use a glue that sticks in the first place?

While I am not optimistic about Volvo in the future under the new Chinese owners I do believe that they will promptly fix the finish problems and and bring down the sticker prices since they are not as inclined to form the circular firing squad and shoot themselves in the name of environmentalism. The real fear with the new Chinese owners is that the quality of the power train and suspension components will suffer.

...Lee

[petershen1984]

When I first came to this site in 2003, in one of the first articles I read, Matthew "blogged" about why would you buy a Volvo. Paraphrasing, he said "If you are expecting Volvos to be as reliable as your Camry, you would be disappointed. But it's for the other things-- the Volvo's safety image and the performance."

So, many of us are united here on MVS to look for answers to familiar symptoms that will eventually happen to their Volvo, and roughly half of those are capable of working on it themselves. To me, maintaining a Volvo was a struggle between its driving pleasure and financial burden. (I've driven the 740 and 960, which with its driving wheels on the rear, and the turning radius of a subcompact car, was definitely on par with the BMW of the time). In the end, the latter does take a toll on how far you get versus how much work you'd have to perform to keep it going.

And I'm sure if any of us follow Irv Gordon's guidelines on how he maintains his P1800, we'd have cars that last for decades and run for millions of miles. But are cars made the same way? I don't think so..

Today's cars just have too many subsystems all powered by independent computers. Which is great--the Volvo dealer can now download software updates to help your car run better. But the complication is, as a Volvo does eventually rot, even faulty wiring can cause things to run havoc with the car. The ultimate result is modern cars tend to go into limp mode more often than, when the 240 and 740s ran like mechanical clockwork.

While ECU can help diagnose when your PCV needs cleaning, it can also set codes in those cars, and display discomforting messages like "Reduced Performance - Service Soon."

What if this power loss happens on the highway? My guess is, given the choice, we would prefer gradual performance declines as the car ages, over the sudden surprise of diagnostic lights and "You've got several vehicle messages." It just exemplifies how unaccountable these cars are - it begs to be repaired.

Don't get me wrong, Volvo's are great cars, but sometimes we have to make do with something more affordable. And with today's economy, we care more about resale value than maintenance costs..

How ironic it is then, as the world's most accountable brand, Toyota is facing unprecedented throttle-rot, having problems returning to closed position. It just doesn't happen! They've got it so wrong....

[petershen1984]

I'm following up with an article that somewhat illustrates my point.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 38188.html

Take Toyota's latest troubles with its marquee car, the Prius. Even amid its runaway-acceleration traumas, the company was hit this week with Japanese and U.S. government investigations of brake failures in the 2010 version of its iconic hybrid.

A bit of history: Brakes were first introduced to computers and software for the relatively simple purpose of anti-lock braking. Then came stability control, giving brakes an additional computer-and-software controlled duty to perform.

In the Prius, brakes have now acquired a third function, "regenerative braking," or generating electricity to recharge the batteries for fuel-saving purposes.

That's a lot of software that has to cooperate to decide how the brakes should behave from one nanosecond to the next. Toyota has yet to offer a detailed diagnosis of the latest Prius misbehavior, but it sure sounds like the trouble arises from some unexpected interaction of these systems—on slippery or uneven roads, at low speeds, the brakes reportedly refuse to respond to a driver's foot on the pedal.

[matthew1]

^^^ You make good points, as does WSJ.

The "rot" phenomenon is only going to get worse as subsystems become more and more complex and expensive.