Ticking is driving me crazy (no pun intended)

[crh]

I've posted this on all the forums, and I'm sorry if that's too many... just want to get EVERYONE'S input (not just the stellar JRL!)

The ticking is occurring on my 1998 V70 XC, 143k miles. All service records, good care from a good dealer (oxymoron?)... bought it, did/replaced the following, all with OEM parts... I'm trying to restricting the service & upgrades to non-chassis/interior/exterior items:

1) full PCV/oil trap service
2) coil, cap, rotor, wires, plugs
3) O2 sensors
4) K&N air filter
5) oil sump o-ring kit
6) new lifters
7) new serpentine belt, timing belt, all attendant pulleys tensioners, idlers, etc.
water pump
9) cam gaskets/o-rings
10) engine flush (Seafoam)
11) tranny flush
12) brake flush/ss brake lines
13) radiator flush
14) new front engine mount (IPD)
15) new tranny stabilizer bushing (blue, IPD)
16) oil changes every 2k miles with 5w-30w semi-synth, Mann filters
18) phenolic insert behind intake manifold (IPD)
19) new dual exhaust (thanks, Jim- worked like a charm... ;^)
20) upper stabilizer bushing (Blue IPD)
21) fuel pump
22) fuel filter
23) crank, seals, etc. checked as much as is possible with pan off (I don't know how much, but they do)
24) everything else checked (turbo, bleed down compression test, yada yada, inspected, tested by *4* different Volvo- certified mechanics (one of which was an old, mysterious guy from another state visiting their shop to buy a P1800 ES from them, runs his own well-regarded, 40+ yeras-old SoCal Volvo-only shop- Jim, have you looked at this car personally? ), each guy having around 20+ years of experience with these era Volvos (P1 XC)...

So far, the new lifters, oil sump o-ring kit job, measuring + inspecting old lifters for scuff marks on their barrels and the head's lifter wells for any measurable wear both apparently OK... man, this motor has some TIGHT tolerances! ;^), Lucas treatment to quell the lifter tick AND the Seafoam 'flush' procedure subsequent to that have <all> been done in the service (pun intended) of fixing the ticking... still no joy.

I STILL have lifter(?) ticking SOMETIMES (not constantly, like a bent rod would make)... back in March of 2010, maybe a week or so after buying this puppy, I noticed what I assumed were bad lifter(s?) that began to do their obnoxious 'lil tap-dance at idle, while warm, and usually just after settling down into an idle after driving. Often does this at startup, as is normal for these motors, at least for anywhere from 15 seconds to a few minutes, depending on how long they've been sitting, as I've learned from these forums, the Owners Manual and my own experience.

My mechanic shop's given me a few options:
1) they'll pull an excellent-condition head from a yard motor on premises, test it, clean it and deck it... install at no charge, since I already *paid*, (so far for <just> the lifter install), in lost work time, $$...... if it works, we all hoist a beer and away I go into the sunset- *hopefully*.

2) they'll refund all my labor+parts+tax money for the 'lifter-snipe-hunt' lifter replacement, the only one of all the above ticking-diagnosis/attempted fix related procedures for which I actually paid... they'll also give me a gift certificate to the best steakhouse in town (yeah, I know- big deal- but it's for $200.00 and I'm hungry), and look forward to serving me once again, once my anger and disappointment with the entire episode eventually passes... which it well may, but I'll probably wind up looking elsewhere for better service.

Any ideas, guys? Please? Whazzup with this XC, and perhaps how expensive/time consuming might THAT be to fix? I'm a few sandwiches shy of a picnic when it comes to diagnosing my Volvo's mechanical issues... can anyone help & possibly hazard a guess/opinion? TIA!

[j_cd]

Yeah a new head seems like about the only thing you haven't tried.

This makes me hesitant to spend money trying to stop the occasional tick on my engine. I swear it might be trade-in time. That Audi A5 coupe looks really nice.

[matthew1]

The Volvo 5-cyl injectors are very loud, and this is often confused with lifter noise. Are you sure it's not injectors?

Use a rubber hose or special listening device and point it at various parts of the engine while idling. You wouldn't be the first to think injector noise is tapping. I did when I got my 850.

My 2004 V70 makes the same sounds.

[meine39]

I'm with Matt - these are some noisy motors. You make no mention of drivability issues. If it ain't broke...

[j_cd]

I don't know about the OP, but in my case I've driven this car for several years and this very loud, occasional ticking only started after I put Amsoil PI in the fuel tank. So maybe in my case it is an injector and not a valve. But the ticking I'm talking about is way louder than the second or two of hydraulic lifter noise when you start the car cold.

My ticking gets faster when you step on the gas. Would an intake valve do this, or just an injector? If it's just an injector I'd be glad as those are easy to have internally cleaned or replace.

[JDS60R]

I would have to hear it up close but it sounds like piston slap. The fact that it happens often during warm up is a good indicator.

Have you checked you piston to bore clearance and the dimensions of the pistons?

[thecheat]

Yep... Most of the cars I've owned in the past 10 years have sounded like sewing machines. If it drives good and doesn't consume oil or coolant, I would leave it alone.

Ie: Taurus SHO, vw gti w/ 1.8 turbo, vw gli w/ 2.0 turbo.. Only dohc car that was quiet was my e32 BMW with the inline 6.

[IVIUSTANG]

If this only happens at startup and your engine is wearing well like you said. I would definitely try Molybdenum disulfide, I use it in my S70 and I used it in my old Ford Escort. My old Escort leaked oil out of every orifice imaginable and I had to add oil weekly, I knew the oil was low based on the rattles and ticking the engine made when I first started it in the day. I added a product called Molyslip and even with 1 litre of oil in the engine I got zero tick and rattles from the engine under any condition I drove it. I KNOW this stuff works in coating metals and creating a dry lubricating environment before oil pressure gets up. Search for MOS2 threads on this site Here is the stuff I use http://www.superfrictionfighter.com/ I usually buy it from the same company on eBay for about 40% less than that website.

- Jesse

[crh]

Yeah a new head seems like about the only thing you haven't tried.

This makes me hesitant to spend money trying to stop the occasional tick on my engine. I swear it might be trade-in time. That Audi A5 coupe looks really nice.

I've owned a few Audis, and they're wonderful beasts... quick, reliable, bulletproof and amazingly agile in bad weather, especially the 'center console knob locking diff' models... *wow*, what hookup!

BUT- if you're at *all* attached to your Volvo, you might wanna go with the Clearwater head. I've heard from everyone from Jim to my mechanics that it's a well-spent $450.00, and it LOOKS, anyway, from the picture, (which they do not state whether it's a generic pic or not), like it comes with lifters, too... Jim, you'd know, I'll wager, and of course anyone who has bought one from them, too *obviously*, eh? I forgot to ask my guys if lifters were part of the deal; I was able to grab 20 OEMs with tax through the shop for $140.00, and the labor, if yer doing the head-swap thing is obviously nil, along with any $$ you can maybe get from your old head, if anything... apparently, 5-cylinder 2.4L Volvo heads in need of a valve job, a decking, a gallery cleaning and maybe a Magnaflux aren't worth much more than scrap value, at least around here, so I guess I wouln't factor in any savings there, though... Crickey, at THAT point I'd try to find a clean used R head and R intake & exhaust manifolds... be with done with it! If it's gonna keep ya on a Swedish seat, why not shoot the moon? (again, no pun intended ) Anyway, it's a nicer problem than most to have in this economy- Audi or Volvo, eh?

If you haven't yet tried the 0-ring job, which a wholeheartedly recommend, even if it turns out <not> to be the immediate issue, because from what I've seen, around 140k, anyway, those o-rings look like *ss! And that wasn't even my problem... If you have done the o-ring kit install thing already, you know from looking at 'em what I'm talkin' about.

It's a judgement call, again, obviously... me, I have the option of an Audi or two to swap at cost if I wanna bail on this path, but I'm a sentimental sucker with a bad back, so I'm stayin' the course!

[crh]

I would have to hear it up close but it sounds like piston slap. The fact that it happens often during warm up is a good indicator.

Have you checked you piston to bore clearance and the dimensions of the pistons?

It does the typical 'wake up call' of loud tapping for anywhere from 3-30 seconds on an overnight, first-thing-in-the-morning startup... it gets both loud and constant on *warm* startups and especially when sitting for a few minutes at idel when fully warm; the hotter the day the more often it clicks at warm idle.

It burns NO oil, has a perfect darkish gray powder film inside the exhaust tip, perfect plugs, normal compression/bleed-down on all 5 cylinders... I know it's pretty much an obsession as much as anything at this point, but if I want the ticking gone (this is the first of about 30 5-cylinder turbo motors I've lived with day in and day out in the last 10 years, and apart from the dry/cold startup, even with a Mann-typ OF, this is the FIRST one at ANY mileage to behave this way, and it p*sses me off, cause I grew up (turned 5o this July), with this noise meaning a lot more than just 'ticking' idiosyncratically... I know it ain't a bent rod or valive or a holed piston, but it's one of the things in my life that I like to have *right*, everything else I have WAY more tolerance with, if ya know what I mean... it's my office, napping place (while waiting for my kids to come out of the school building , transportation and pride 'o ownership belonging... don't know how to express it, but I'm sure you gys know what I mean... it's like a Knucklhead Harley or Vincent with a mag and no battery starting on the first kick with no kickback or smoke... it WORKS RIGHT, I feel better! ...

Back to non-screed reality... haven't done yet: injector check, hose/stethoscope, 10 or 5w-40w,(only run 5w-30w semi-synth), Molyslip, or a new head... I'll try everything but the Molyslip, and once I run it by a few mechanics, maybe that, too... but if I show up at 7:30 tomorrow morning at the shop and they've got a cleaned and decked head on the bench ready to go, I'm pulling into the garage and going for breakfast in a loaner and comin' back at 5:00 p.m. for my Swedish sewing machine! if NOT, then I'll request we go down this list... see what happens...