850 window problem

cmarcoux · Post by **cmarcoux** » 12 Nov 2010, 13:46

I have a real mess on my hands. Window stopped working thank god it's up!!!!!!
First thought it was a window master switch so I replaced still not working:(
Next I switched out the engine and the still not working.
So this is clearly a electric problem I just do not know what kind it is yet.
All other windows work from center master switch so the problem is coming from the wires themselves I would guess I am not sure.

Help!!!!!!!

Post by **BEJinFbk** » 12 Nov 2010, 14:30

First off - Which window?
If it's a rear window, it has a switch at the door that may well be your problem.
The power travels through the master AND the rear switch on it's way to the window motor.
In the future, you can save yourself a lot of grief when you troubleshoot by checking the
suspect motor right at it's connection that plugs into the "local" switch. Unplugging the
"local" switch and putting known good voltage right on the motor leads will tell you if the
motor and window mechanism is OK and get you a little farther down the road to finding
the root of your problem.

I say this because these Volvo window motors hardly ever wear out.
It's nearly a guarantee that you have a power/switch problem.

Here's a link and a PDF that may help!

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/power-window2.htm

95 850 Power Windows.pdf: (378.6 KiB) Downloaded 953 times

cmarcoux · Post by **cmarcoux** » 12 Nov 2010, 15:24

sorry front drivers side. I now know the master switch is still getting power. I also just tested the plug no power there. Removed the sleeve on the door and the wire seems fine. Thanks for the link.

Post by **BEJinFbk** » 12 Nov 2010, 15:54

You can still test the motor in place in the door to see if that part is OK.
Then look for power in the door coming down the wire from the switch.
Sure, you'll have to pull the door panel again, but hey -
Fixed Window? Totally worth it!

cmarcoux · Post by **cmarcoux** » 12 Nov 2010, 16:24

Well ya but I know it works I have the new motor in they tested it at the junk yard I bought it from. From that diagram you gave me it looks to me it may be the relay but I have no idea what a relay looks like. I am going to find out where the power stops working when I have daylight. I am going to do the motor test on the old motor. I was thinking taking the first motor to the passenger window plug and seeing if it's toast. Even if it is trash that just means the power stops some where between the switch to the plug.

Post by **BEJinFbk** » 12 Nov 2010, 17:05

cmarcoux wrote:Well ya but I know it works I have the new motor in they tested it at the junk yard I bought it from. From that diagram you gave me it looks to me it may be the relay but I have no idea what a relay looks like.

If you look at page 2 of the PDF, you'll see the K1 relay. It's the "auto down" relay for the driver's window that senses
an increase current going to the motor when it hits end of travel at the bottom, then cuts power. There is a VERY good
chance that it's funky. I'd drag a meter out and start looking at where your voltages are at the switch and relay.

cmarcoux wrote: I am going to find out where the power stops working when I have daylight. I am going to do the motor test on the old motor. I was thinking taking the first motor to the passenger window plug and seeing if it's toast. Even if it is trash that just means the power stops some where between the switch to the plug.

You don't need to tear the passenger door apart, just apply 12 volts right to the motor.
Just be sure it's secure when you do. Those are torquey little suckers!

cmarcoux · Post by **cmarcoux** » 13 Nov 2010, 13:26

Ends up I had to tear the door apart. and almost everything else with it. Ok so I removed the dash the center and to much to list and I still can't find a break in the line is it possible the door plug is bad with just the window not working but lock and side view being fine. I found where the wire hit the mother board but can't figure out a way to check that too. So what to do?

Post by **BEJinFbk** » 13 Nov 2010, 13:41

cmarcoux wrote:Ends up I had to tear the door apart. and almost everything else with it. Ok so I removed the dash the center and to much to list and I still can't find a break in the line is it possible the door plug is bad with just the window not working but lock and side view being fine. I found where the wire hit the mother board but can't figure out a way to check that too. So what to do?

Are you using a meter to check for power at the master switch output?
If you're just looking at things, you need to get a meter and start checking voltages.
Start at the master, trace through the relay and if you still have power leaving the
relay, use the meter to check continuity betwen the relay and the motor.

If running this kind of electrical troubleshooting is not your thing,
call a buddy that knows their way around a wiring diagram and
invest in some beer and pizza. GOOD beer!

cmarcoux · Post by **cmarcoux** » 13 Nov 2010, 16:05

Here is what I tested.
I need to learn how to post pictures:)

Power going to master switch (working) Light even turns on with lights.
Other end (engine plug) No power.
I would not tell anyone to do what I did but I used some wire grips and tried to send power to the windows engine through the passengers switch. It smoked a lot but the window did not move.

Where else do I need to look?
And your right this is not my thing at all but I need to figure this on my own calling a friend won't work most of the people I know would never buy a car knowing it needs work. And I work on my car all the time so I am on my own. Oh and I just reopened you link and page 2 didn't load yesterday I could have used that.

Post by **BEJinFbk** » 13 Nov 2010, 18:38

cmarcoux wrote: Here is what I tested.
I need to learn how to post pictures:)

Power going to master switch (working) Light even turns on with lights.
Other end (engine plug) No power.
I would not tell anyone to do what I did but I used some wire grips and tried to send power to the windows engine through the passengers switch. It smoked a lot but the window did not move.

Go back and read my previous warning...YOU HAVE TO UNPLUG THE MOTOR FROM THE SWITCH !!!
When the switches are "at rest", BOTH MOTOR LEADS ARE GROUNDED. You've probably hosed the switch...
You will absolutely, positively have to unplug the motor from the switch to isolate it from the rest of the car.
Apply power to the two wires one way, the window goes up, reverse polarity, it goes down.

Here's the important part from the "How Stuff Works" page:

When the driver presses one of the switches, one of the two side contacts is disconnected from the ground and connected to the center power contact, while the other one remains grounded. This provides power to the window motor. If the switch is pressed the other way, then power runs through the motor in the opposite direction.

cmarcoux wrote: Where else do I need to look?

At the How Stuff Works page. If you don't understand the idea behind how power windows work,
you're just gonna keep letting smoke out of things. This is "A Basic System". The only extra
thing involved is the K1 "auto down" relay between the master switch and the window motor.

cmarcoux wrote: And your right this is not my thing at all but I need to figure this on my own calling a friend won't work most of the people I know would never buy a car knowing it needs work. And I work on my car all the time so I am on my own. Oh and I just reopened you link and page 2 didn't load yesterday I could have used that.

If you've already pulled the door panel, go ahead unplug the motor and check it in the door.
At least you'll know that the motor works. Then plug it back in, UNPLUG THE SWITCH and try it again from there.
That will tell you if the wire from the switch to the door is alright. Again, it's really starting to sound like the K1 is bad.
You just need to break this down into sections and check them one at a time. Isolate, deduce and conquer!