Won't Start - Fuel injection Problem

kk5zc · Post by **kk5zc** » 30 Dec 2010, 09:30

i searched the forum for non starting issues. I am at a point I don't know what to do next. Here is what I have done so far.

Fuel Pressure Check at fuel rail
I put my hand on the fuel injector while trying to start the car. Could not feel them firing.
I pulled the fuel rail/injectors and tried to start the car. Fuel was not spraying from the injectors.

The gray relay on the fan shroud is randomly clicking while the key is on. I assume this is the fuel injector relay. This seems very odd to me. I would expect that the relay would click as the engine was being cranked.

Another odd issue that I encountered was from the OBD. When I plug the connector into port 2 to read any DTC's that may be present, the light is glowing a dim red. I push the button, the red light glows bright, I release and it returns to dim red. However, it never flashes. I have tried to reset and I am getting no reaction whatsoever from the OBD. I have never had this issue before. I also tried disconnecting the battery for a period of time in hopes that something may reset so the OBD would return to normal operation, but no luck.

Where do I go from here? I don't know what I should check next.

Thanks for any help you can provide.
Thanks,
Bobby

Post by **Ozark Lee** » 30 Dec 2010, 17:50

Bobby,

Everything you say points to a bad master fuel relay or the wiring leading into it. That is the gray relay that you described.

The wiring to the relay is very exposed and it is not uncommon for there to be a problem at the base of the connector.

That relay is very available (any auto parts store) and relatively cheap if you can't find a problem with the wiring harness.

If your IAC valve isn't making any noise with the key in position II that pretty much confirms the master fuel system relay as the problem.

...Lee

Post by **precopster** » 30 Dec 2010, 19:04

Hi Bobby, Can you post your model, year etc This would be most helpful.
Ozark probably went through your posting history to see what type of car your last questions were about.

Any relay which randomly clicks when power is applied is suspect. Try taking the relay out of circuit and applying +12V to the coil to see if the clicking is more stable. This will tell you if it is a wiring problem or a relay problem.

You can find the coil by measuring for a resistance across two terminals; probably around 80 ohms.

If your model is N/A (not too sure if they are located in the same position on turbos) there is a fuel relay behind the fuse panel near the wipers. You need to remove some torx screws on a cover to get to it. It's usually pink in colour. These often require replacement. I was lucky enough to find some dry solder joints on the circuit board. The resoldering has lasted for 18 months since I resoldered.

kk5zc · Post by **kk5zc** » 30 Dec 2010, 19:37

Sorry for not posting the model. I have a 1995 850 Turbo.

I'll check into replacing the relay.

Thanks,
Bobby

kk5zc · Post by **kk5zc** » 30 Dec 2010, 20:38

I tested the relay as suggested and it appears to be good.

I found the 2 legs that ohmed out about 80 and checked the relay with a power supply. The relay seemed to work as it should. The relay sounded solid as it opened and closed as I applied power and disconnected power. I left it connected for a few minutes and no sound came from the relay other than the intial snap when power was applied.

I put it back into the connector and it started making the erratic sound of opening and closing. I checked the battery voltage and it was a little low. About 11.8V. I put a charger on it. Next, I connected the relay using the battery. It seemed to work as it should.

The last test was to test the relay by jumping the 2 wires from the connector to the relay. Again, the relay seemed to work as it should.

It appears the relay only makes the noise when plugged into the connector. I did my best to make sure the terminal in the connector would make good contact. I also used some dieelectric grease on the 2 terminals. Is something going on with the other 2 wires from the connector that would cause the relay to act like this?

I checked the wiring and it appear to be in good shape. No cuts/splits. The insulation on the wires is all good.

What's next?

Thanks,
Bobby

Post by **precopster** » 30 Dec 2010, 21:54

You can spend all day trying to find where the break is or you can perform wire/connector bypass surgery to see if the connector area is at fault. Cut the +12V ignition wire and the earth lead about four inches back from the connector then join some new wires to the loom. Join these to two new connectors to mate to the relay's coil terminals. Try the relay again.

If still faulty it may be best to find another ignition on +12V source and earth to power the relay's coil.

Good luck & keep us posted.

Post by **Ozark Lee** » 31 Dec 2010, 06:02

I have seen the sockets on the large terminals in the connector overheat and then grow to a point where they no longer make good contact with the pins on the relay. It tends to eat on itself as the connection carbonizes which causes the connection to heat even more and get even worse.

You might be able to use a small screwdriver to clean up the sockets and then use some toothpicks around the socket to tighten the connection. If you can find a junk yard car I think I would chop the connector off and splice a replacement on.

...Lee

kk5zc · Post by **kk5zc** » 31 Dec 2010, 09:18

I used alligator clips to jumper from the connector to the relay. Although this didn't bypass the connector completely, I should have had a good connection to the terminals with the alligator clips. The erratic clicking was still there. I then connected the 2 coil terminals to the battery. The clicking was still there. I also pulled the IAC off to ohm out the terminals. I left the IAC off, and left the fuel relay jumpered directly to the battery and the other 2 wires to the connector and tried to start it and it started. I've put everything back together, and although the relay is still making this noise, it will start and run. At this point, idle is not consistent, but I don't have the hose completely connected that goes from the IAC to the thottle body. I am going to order a new one. It has a split in it. I hope that when I replace the hose, idle will return to normal.

I don't know what has changed since yesterday. Relay is still making the noise but it will start and run. There is a check engine light, but I am unable to check the codes because the OBD is not responding. The LED still has a dim glow all the time. Pushing the button does nothing but make the LED brighter and then no response.

Bobby

kk5zc · Post by **kk5zc** » 31 Dec 2010, 10:40

It will not start again. I noticed that the 'UP Arrow" on the instrument cluster is flashing. Is this any indication of what may be wrong. The last time I started it, it died immediatly after about 10-15 seconds of run time. The arrow started flashing when it died.

Bobby

Post by **Ozark Lee** » 31 Dec 2010, 15:07

What kind of battery voltage are you reading?

...Lee