'99' V70XC won't start

grntrdbx · Post by **grntrdbx** » 31 Dec 2010, 06:39

My wife's '99' V70XC has 217k on it. She says it ran fine the night before, and the next morning it wouldn't start. It' winter in Michigan and I don't have a garage or barn to work in, so eventhough I'm a gearhead, I wasn't going to get really deep into a repair with it. It turns over but doesn't fire. I decided to take it to a local repair shop instead of the dealership because it needs a lot of other things replaced and I really only needed another month or so out of it before we replaced it (looking at a nice '04' V70R). I had it towed to the shop and after checking it all out they were leading to a new timing belt. Compression in all of the cylinders was not up to acceptable pressures (we bought it with 21k on it and it has always used oil, I figured the rings were installed wrong at the factory, and it had always run pretty good so I didn't fool with it). I'm not sure if they have too much experience with volvos, but they were talking about removing the valve cover and checking the valve clearances to see if the some of the valves were causing the pressure leaks (they're thinking possibly bent valves). I wasn't there when my wife tried to start it that next morning, but when I had checked it out later that day I didn't hear any mettalic or noise that would indicate valvetrain interference. I am gettting fuel, they feel that the timing marks look lined up but when looking through the oil fill cap hole, the mechanic said that the exhaust valve doesn't seem to be seating properly. I was thinking that the issue might be leading to an electrical issue (possibly a crank positioning sensor or ignition issue). I don't know what the fault codes they're getting. I can't believe that all of the coils would be bad. It just seems that if the timing looks good and I had blow-by in some cylinders before, I would lead to no-spark to the coil packs. Any ideas? Thanks.

RaymanSean · Post by **RaymanSean** » 31 Dec 2010, 07:29

hmm seems like they are taking you on a fishing expedition. Have them remove the timing belt covers to inspect the timing belt. If it is intact then I I would spray a little ether in the intake and see if it kicks over and runs. If it does and runs then your problem is as they described low compression probably due worn cylinders/ broken rings/ etc. If it does not kick over look at the ignition system. Chances are once you get it to kick over it will run with little problems but in the bone chilling cold of Michigan the lack of compression and heat is not allowing the fuel to get to the explosive/ flammable range inside the combustion chamber. If the ether allows it to fire then the residual heat plus increased RPM will likely generate enough heat on the next stroke to allow the car to run on gas. With all that said be careful when you use ether, it is very flammable and I have heard of people doing some serious damage buy using too much in one attempt. I would suggest for a first attempt a 1 second spray into the intake manifold. If it works then you can either use the ether every time it fails to start for the next couple of months, or you can look into one of the several oil additives that claim to increase compression. If you were planning on keeping the car then I would say have the motor rebuilt, but as I understand it you are looking for a quick fix and not a cure.

grntrdbx · Post by **grntrdbx** » 03 Jan 2011, 21:07

I'll call the garage and see if they came up with any ideas, and I'll suggest some of yours. I'm currently looking at a 2004 V70R and I was hoping to get another month out of the '99' until I was able to seal the deal with the '04'. Thanks.

grntrdbx · Post by **grntrdbx** » 07 Jan 2011, 12:23

The mechanic said that when the timing marks are lined up on the crank and (I'm pretty sure he said) cyl 1 is at TDC, at least 3 of the other 4 cylinders are leaking air past the valves when he believes they, or some of them, should be seating. He is leaning toward a bent valvetrain. Going this far into the engine would far exceed the value of the vehicle. If air is leaking past the valves through other valves via the intake, I don't think I really want to be spraying either into it and hoping for an explosion. Does anyone know a cut and dry proceedure to finding out which valves should be closing at what times and positions on the pulleys to determine if the valvetrain may be bent without disassembling the entire head? In reply to RaymanSean's reply, I'm not looking for a quick fix but a repair that may have been overlooked and fairly inexpensive.

RaymanSean · Post by **RaymanSean** » 07 Jan 2011, 17:30

Using the firing order which I do not know off the top of my head and that fact that all 5 cylinders pass through TDC with one complete revolution of the cams or two revolutions of the crank, then based on the cam starting at TDC for cylinder 1 at 12:00 the next cylinder should reach TDC at 2:24, and continue at 4:48, 7:12, and 9:36. If you want to do it off the crank then the times will be 0:00, 4:48, 9:36,14:24, and 19:12. I did a Google search and found that the firing order may be 1-2-5-4-3, this needs to be verified.
If the above firing order is correct then the position for TDC of each pistons are as follows
Cyn# Cam Crank
1 0:00 0:00 (this is by definition)
2 2:24 4:48
5 4:48 9:36
4 7:12 14:24
3 9:36 19:12

The position of the pistons when cylinder 1 is TDC should be:
1= fire
2=compression
5= intake
4=top of exhaust
3=bottom of power

So I could see how 3 of the 5 cylinders could be leaking air when #1 is at TDC. With this said I do not know the specifics of the cams and thus while a piston may be on a certain stroke (i.e. exhaust, intake) it does not mean that the exhaust valve is open for that cyln when 1 is at TDC and the same is true for the intake and power. I know that the spark is initiated before TDC. I suspect that the exhaust valve opens just before the bottom of the power stroke, and that the intake valves opens just before or at the top of the exhaust stroke.

But before you pass this along, what is the story about the car? What made them think it was a timing belt that caused this? Did they replace the timing belt because when the car arrived the belt was broke? The parts of the story we have do not add up.

grntrdbx wrote:I had it towed to the shop and after checking it all out they were leading to a new timing belt.

then you next say that

grntrdbx wrote: compression in all of the cylinders was not up to acceptable pressures

... How did they perform a compression test with a broken timing belt? Either they replaced the broken timing belt and did the compression test or they did a compression test without replacing the belt. If the former is true, then I believe that you have bent valves, Volvo uses interference engines. If the latter is true (performed compression test without replacing the timing belt) then you probably do not have bent valves. Thus the problem is probably excessive blow by aggravated by the cooler temperatures. Is the car sitting in a heated shop, can you get the car to a place where you can warm it up to 80 dgrs F? If so get the car there and try to start it.

If not have the mechanic verify that the spark plugs are sparking. If they are then have the mechanic dust off his trusty timing light to see if he can verify that the number 1 cyl is sparking close to tdc . If it is then the engine knows the postion of the cam and crank. This leaves you with only two possibilities 1) the engine is not getting fuel or 2) excessive blow by.

Since the car has been diagnosed with low compression and the fact that it used oil before indicates to me that you had blow by. Now that it is cold out and the engine was allowed to cool down you probably cannot get enough compression to get the engine to kick over.

Since you are against ether, then my next suggestion is to place a few drops of heavy (20W50) oil in each cylinder through the spark plug holes, before putting the plugs in turn the engine over to make sure that no too much oil is in the cylinders, put it all back together and see if it starts then. The oil will temporarily help create a seal to prevent some of the blow by.

grntrdbx · Post by **grntrdbx** » 08 Jan 2011, 05:36

Thanks for all the info. The timing belt wasn't broken and the mechanic didn't replace it. They did seal the cylinders with oil and that had helped with the compression. (I could have told them that). They were thinking that the valvetrain may have been damaged somewhere because the cam lobes (from what they could see through the oil fill hole) didn't seem to be closing the valves completely. I don't have a place to warm it up (my barn caved in about 5 yrs ago and I don't have a garage yet), that's one of the reasons I took it to a local shop. It seemed to me that the thing was leading to an electrical issue. I would think that if the cylinders were getting spark (they said the plugs were getting spark to them) and they were getting fuel at the correct time, you would have ignition in at least a couple of cylinders. I am leading to taking it for a diagnostic test at the dealership this week. By the time I get home from work it is usually dark (and freaking cold) outside so I'm not able to spend much time diagnosing it. I'll see if I can check out some of your suggestions this weekend. I just got it towed back to my driveway last night. When I get home tonight I'll put the OBD-II reader on it and start over again. Thanks again.

RaymanSean · Post by **RaymanSean** » 08 Jan 2011, 06:16

The getting fuel and spark without combustion could be caused caused by the computer not knowing where the engine is or lack of compression. I would go get a compression test gauge from your local auto parts store and see what the numbers are. Then perform the oil trick to see if you can get the numbers high enough if you can then put the plugs and coils in and see if it will start. If you have a timing light (you may be able to borrow one from the auto parts store) then you can verify that the ignition timing is correct, you may want to use an old style plug wire as the boots for the coils will probably be too large for the clamp to go on. If the ignition timing is off then you know the answer and you probably need new sensors. If the ignition timing is fine then you have low compression and if the oil did not help get the engine to tick over perhaps you could use some after market block heaters to get the engine temp up which will increase the chances of combustion in the chamber. Stay warm today and let us know what you find. Also, a trip to the dealer may allow the car to get nice and warm and it may start, mechanics hate working on cold cars.

grntrdbx · Post by **grntrdbx** » 08 Jan 2011, 07:05

RaymanSean, I didn't mention on this topic that the key has been stuck in the ignition for some time (atleast 2 years). I'm pretty sure that it has to do with the detent switch on the bottom of the shifter under the console. I had it apart about a year ago and was able to remove the key for a couple of months before it was not able to be removed again. A couple of times last year I was able to work the key out. The last time I got it out this way, when I put the key back in and rotated it in the tumbler it rotated 360 degrees before it caught and was able to start the car. That was early last fall. It has started normally with the key stuck in the ignition since. Is it possible that the ignition switch in the column has given up the ghost and is not making the contacts necessary to start the car? I let the mechanic know about this but maybe it fell on deaf ears or they didn't know how to check for this. This would support my reasoning for thinking the issue was electrical in nature. What do you think? Again, thanks for all of your help.

Post by **mikealder** » 08 Jan 2011, 07:29

Is it an auto box? if so the PNP switch is probably shot which is why the car won't release the ignition switch, another reason this can stick in is the small lever you pull on the front of the gear selector in order to move the gearstick, if this lever jams in then the key won't be released, but I doubt this has much to do with the car not starting, if its turning over and not firing.

Has it thrown any fault codes, if so which ones are they - Mike

grntrdbx · Post by **grntrdbx** » 08 Jan 2011, 07:43

Yes, it's an auto. I haven't had a chance to pull the fault codes for myself, I'll be doing that tonight. I've got a feeling that it is leading up to the tumbler/ignition assy on the column not making the correct contacts in the ignition switch to tell it to fire.