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2001 S60 Auto Transmission trouble

Help, Advice, Owners' Discussion and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's stylish, distinctive "P2" platform cars.

2001 - 2007 V70
2004 - 2007 V70 R
2001 - 2007 XC-70
2001 - 2009 S60
2003 - 2007 S60 R

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Re: 2001 S60 Auto Transmission trouble

Post by Retired MVS Contributor » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:31 am

JRL wrote:Just to let everyone know, I (ME) was the beta tester for the stop/neutral software.

I had an early 01 (new) with almost immediate clunking issues. I complained starting in August 2000. The head engineer from Rockleigh came down. We have been friendly after I did some beta testing on an early 98 XC for Volvo.

Anyhow I got this very hush hush software around December 2000, after that and for 3 years, nary a single shifting issue and lo and behold, a couple of years later the stop-neutral disabling software came out...a few generations better than the one I (and I'm sure others after me) tested.
by JRL » 27 Feb 2011, 18:14

Not exactly true
It is CRAP because of VOLVO engineering and their pitiful software engineers.
They took a perfectly good transmission and ruined it by using their own software instead of colaborating with Aisin Warner first
Wasn't this your post earlier on this issue?...How come you did not tell us about the Beta test earlier...Something does not seem right here...

Jerry
Last edited by matthew1 on Wed May 04, 2011 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quoting.



machinit
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Re: 2001 S60 Auto Transmission trouble

Post by machinit » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:54 am

jerrymcc wrote:Every dealer approaches recalls, etc differently....My dealer upgraded my transmission software after a year on his own without telling me why, even though I had not experienced any issues...He said it was an upgrade to improve performance...It was several years later that I found out about stop neutral...

Jerry
I thought the transmission was "self learning"? Wouldn't just running the transmission/car through an adaptation cycle do the same thing?

I have been told that the adaptation cycle is done to optimize the performance, not downloading of software.



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Re: 2001 S60 Auto Transmission trouble

Post by jimmy57 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:30 am

Self learning capabilities have a goal of learning to get shift completion time within a target. Shift times that are within this target are not so sloppy that unnecessary wear occurs and not so short as to be harsh.
There is another software strategy that can be employed that looks at throttle apply and release and can decide to hold a gear and not upshift if the scenario of throttle application seems to fit profile of driving on curvy mountainous roads with switchbacks. The latter would be nicer for trans and for driver as the gearbox would avoid so many shifts and lag while waiting for downshift after it has upshifted unnecessarily.
The learning is sometimes described by marketing types for ads in a way that implies much more than it is. There is never a learning that is personalized for YOU.
Some trans downloads reset the TCM and the adaptive learning needs to be done so the transmission will not seem broken when it is returned to customer and it has not accomplished some of the solenoid control during shifting yet. Some software is for control that has no impact on the actual shifting and may be only a speed vs shift or other improvement where there is no reason for erasing adaptives and having them relearned is needed.
The 5 and 6 speeds are second generation electronic transmissions. First gen had a couple of solenoids for shifting that did little more than replace valves that previously were moved by fluid pressures regulated by mechanical controls instead of a computer. Second gen have less valve body parts and more solenoids and more direct control of items released and applied and how they are released and applied. Learning on first gen is simple, learning on second gen is more complicated and has greater reach.
Neutral control was an effort to reduce emissions as it lessened engine load idling and reduced fuel consumption but the gains were small and the side effects were large. Emissions compliance rules do tie the hands of carmakers when they want to do some changes. They do not have total freedom over powertrain management software changes without worrying of the impact. They either do testing for their own assurance that a change will not haunt them later (fines or recalls) or to demonstrate to EPA that a change has no impact on compliance if that is needed prior.



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Re: 2001 S60 Auto Transmission trouble

Post by JRL » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:35 am

jerrymcc wrote:
JRL wrote: Wasn't this your post earlier on this issue?...How come you did not tell us about the Beta test earlier...Something does not seem right here...

Jerry
I don't know why, I guess I didn't think of it at the time.
Not really related to anything, just a heads up.

Someone had to do the testing.
This is what a smaller company does, have a complaining
customer and give them something to try (when it's a legit complaint) so they can put some real world miles on it
I also did some suspension testing for them on my very early build 98 XC. After they found out what the problem was, new parts were made and a running change was made


2000 V70R Black, 144,000 miles Wife's R.
2007 V70 2.5T White/Oak 111,000 MILES. Polestar tune, IPD bars, rear spoiler, dark grey Thors, DWS 06, HU850, sub.

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Re: 2001 S60 Auto Transmission trouble

Post by machinit » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:07 am

I can say this for certainty, based on the experience that I've had with this car and what i have learned over the last year or so dealing with Volvo and their dealerships, I won't be supplying them with any more of my hard earned dollars!

The car is driveable as it sits right now and I will give it away on trade-in at a dealership and pay cash for a replacement vehicle that will definately be from a different manufacturer. This has been the worst vehicle purchase that I have ever made and i've regretted it everyday for the last three years. The lack of quality and dependability in the transmission of a vehicle such as this is inexcusable and the total lack of accountability by Volvo is, in my opinion typical arrogance by a manufacturer.

Thank's for the info, but i'm moving on!



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Re: 2001 S60 Auto Transmission trouble

Post by JRL » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:32 am

Common answer from someone who bought a used 2001 and did not do their homework!
It has been stated almost everywhere since about 2006 that 2001 Volvos are/were, for the most part, total crap.
It came out underdeveloped with bad transmissions and other smaller, (mostly electrical) yet anoying faults.

Same for 1999-2001 S80s
After M/Y 2002 they're not bad
After M/Y 2003 the P2 cars aren't bad cars either


2000 V70R Black, 144,000 miles Wife's R.
2007 V70 2.5T White/Oak 111,000 MILES. Polestar tune, IPD bars, rear spoiler, dark grey Thors, DWS 06, HU850, sub.

Contact info for purchases: [email protected]

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Re: 2001 S60 Auto Transmission trouble

Post by EstVolvo » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:24 pm

I feel your pain. What are you getting next?
Check out http://www.vexedvolvo.org/ - there are some interesting documents. One of them " Volvos infamous '94% failure at 100,000 miles' (1page pdf file) shows that those cars weren't meant to last longer than 100,000 miles.
Attitude at Volvo is bad - they replaced my old ETM with new one that has the same design as the old one ...
Did you have your ETM replaced?



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Re: 2001 S60 Auto Transmission trouble

Post by machinit » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:39 pm

JRL wrote:Common answer from someone who bought a used 2001 and did not do their homework!
It has been stated almost everywhere since about 2006 that 2001 Volvos are/were, for the most part, total crap.
It came out underdeveloped with bad transmissions and other smaller, (mostly electrical) yet anoying faults.

Same for 1999-2001 S80s
After M/Y 2002 they're not bad
After M/Y 2003 the P2 cars aren't bad cars either
Show me any article from 2001-2006 from a nationally distributed consumer reporting/review company that identifies a widespread transmission problem with a 2001 Volvo S60. Preferably Consumer Reports or the like. I looked for one at the time of my purchase and I never found one.

Sorry, I don't intend to convince the Volvo "supporters" that these cars are sub-par, all you have to do is see where Volvo ranks as far as units sold in the US and I think it speaks for itself.



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Re: 2001 S60 Auto Transmission trouble

Post by JRL » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:29 pm

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0e2cb2

Keep scrolling down
(Latest dated comments are on the top)


2000 V70R Black, 144,000 miles Wife's R.
2007 V70 2.5T White/Oak 111,000 MILES. Polestar tune, IPD bars, rear spoiler, dark grey Thors, DWS 06, HU850, sub.

Contact info for purchases: [email protected]

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Re: 2001 S60 Auto Transmission trouble

Post by priapism » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:25 am

All you had to do is look on this forum (or Swedespeed, Turbobricks, etc) and you'd see all the troubles the car was having. We were researching C70s and stumbled on our S60, figured it was the same...not so much.


Titan LE : S60 2.4t : 91 325i : Spec E30 #33

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