Which turbo mod for LPT xc

lexluther · Post by **lexluther** » 06 Apr 2011, 00:24

My compression ratio seems to be 8.5:1 still pretty low and I am wanting to upgrade my turbo. I have low miles 13k so I want to keep the TD04 and change out the compression side vs a new purchase. It seem that the choices out there anyways are hybrids

TD04HL-16T
TD04HL-18T
TD04HL-19T

After much reading I see that the exhaust side is the same on my stock 13T and the turbo's above and only the compression side is different. Which means to me I can split my turbo and upgrade it vs have to get an entirely new turbo.

Before ppl start say "NO not its not possible" see BSR and also MTE/IPD offers an 18T upgrade as part of their stage kit for the 2.5 LPT.

BSR has the 2.4 and 2.5 in the same stage catagory
http://en.bsr.se/products/t502/
Click on the turbo (empty pic) and it shows an 18T on exchange basis meaning they are doing the same as I'm thinking above.

MTE is the same
http://shop.mte.se/product.asp?product=88
But they do not specify the turbo used. I emailed Kevin at IPD and a week has gone by without a response. So I am leaning toward Rica from George at Viva as he's been more then responsive but he's saying 16T and also I don't see a stage for this and data logging with custom tune may be required. BSR it doesn't seem to popular and I don't know about data logging and support for them.

My goal is 300hp to stay within the limits of the auto-trans. I've already upgraded to IPD trans cooler and synthetic oil and planing on annual/5k oil changes. Also the car will not be driven hard so it wouldn't be full boost all day every day I just need it to merge onto short onramps and to avoid crazy bay area drivers. I feel like a slug waiting to get squashed on the freeways now...

Post by **jblackburn** » 06 Apr 2011, 05:38

9:1 CR on the 2.4T.

16T won't get you up to 300 hp. Stick with the 18T. The 19's boost pattern can be tricky even with a proper tune. They call it "the rod bender".

Post by **kcodyjr** » 06 Apr 2011, 09:41

Better yet, leave the 13G right where it is. That thing will spin up so fast, the engine should have an output curve with the same shape as a V-8, but with peak numbers and spreads typical of an straight-6. Sure, it starts falling off at 4900, but really, how often are you breaking 5K? My 97 GLT absolutely tools the big-turbos coming off the line; by the time they're spun up, I'm already gone.

With 13K on that thing, leave it mostly be:

* K&N panel in the factory box. Don't mess around with cone systems.

* Dual exhaust conversion from EuroSportTuning

* Silicone intake and radiator hoses - no RIP kit

* OE, OE, OE. Don't mess up a jewel like that.

Why don't I like RIP kits? Because it puts the throttle-body side closer to the ground. Get it into a good puddle and it yanks off, and watch that hydrostatic lock-up from sucking the rain into the cylinders. The factory configuration, with the turbo blowing into the bottom, would just blow some bubbles into the puddle. Any rain sucked into the intercooler will fall back out long before reaching the throttle body. Better hoses (silicone) are worth it, though, for improved heat resistance and less flexing.

Post by **jblackburn** » 06 Apr 2011, 09:49

I'd have to agree; the big turbos take freaking forever to spool up.

A simple Stage-1 tune on the 13G will get you close to T5 HP/torque numbers, too. And bone stock, mine's no slouch.

Post by **kcodyjr** » 06 Apr 2011, 10:07

And drawing attention to it one more time, those T5 torque numbers jblackburn speaks of, will be available to the wheels by the time you pass 1600 RPM, which happens before the rear wheels have entered the intersection. You'll be doing 35 and shifting into second about the time the T5 is doing 10 and finally hitting its boost.

lexluther · Post by **lexluther** » 06 Apr 2011, 16:52

Yes thats what I'm looking for to keep the super low turbo lag I currently have but to gain hp numbers. The stage 1 puts my boost at 14 and I know the 13g runs out at 12 but you also gain higher EGT's. I want to retain the same lag and push a bit more air more efficiently so the turbo isn't working so hard hence the larger compression side. Correct me if I'm wrong this is my first turbo car and also my first car under 300hp but the turbo choices are all the same only the compression side changes, so wouldn't the spool time stay the same as the exhaust side housing and wheel are unchanged and I would only gain larger volume of air at lower boost with the larger turbo?

I am worried that pushing the 13g will generate more heat and hence more wear and tear on not just the turbo but the engine as its running hotter intake temps?

Post by **kcodyjr** » 06 Apr 2011, 17:19

The intake temps are a function of (turbo) compression ratio more than anything else. Thus, your EGT will rise.

No, the spool time will go up because there's more energy being consumed by the larger compressor wheel, thus the turbine wheel has to work that much harder to supply it, thus it has to have a bigger pressure drop across the turbine blades.

Also - don't think in terms of horsepower. Think in terms of available torque. I could give you 1000's of horsepower with just 1 foot-pound of torque, if I could make the sucker spin fast enough. Look at the RPM range you'll actually be using, not the redline.

Start with that K&N panel for the factory box, it's all of $60. Then do the cat-back dual exhaust conversion. Then, maybe consider the $90 thermal isolator from IPD, between the intake manifold and the head.

If that still isn't enough it's time to dig deeper, but one crucial question remains. The 13G falls off because the engine just can't force enough air through it. The question is, is this due to the compressor maxing out, or the turbine, or both?

You may want to do the ECU as well before making such a major change as the turbocharger ratings.

lexluther · Post by **lexluther** » 06 Apr 2011, 23:01

Yes I'm ready to dive in I'm getting embarrassed. My mother who is senior citizen had some unfavorable comments about the car.

1) Its a slouch say called it "lazy"
2) It sways to much
3) brakes are quote "crap".And yes I've bleed them

I've address item 2 with IPD swaybars and front at stiffest setting. I want to address the 1st item before going to 3 to know how aggressive to take. I want to keep it as stock as I can unless an advantage can be other otherwise. Time and money both of which are valuable especially now there's no point in wasting either unless an advantage can be had.

The s60r manifold will be in tomorrow address the breathing part. Intake K&N or JR what do you guys say? I know JR doesn't last as long but who cares I can clean it or even get a new one at that price point, I drive maybe 3-5k a year I have 2 cars.

Can I do the Phenolic intake spacers? IPD says 1998 only??

lexluther · Post by **lexluther** » 06 Apr 2011, 23:06

Exhaust is on the menu for me however I am a but older and like to keep things quite however I do enjoy a deep musical note.

The Eurosport duals not sure if they drone and if they are the same as Vivaperformance sells? V70r factory duals I hear just change the note and not sure about Hp gain. Is there an Hp advantage to be had with the mufflers? The exhaust is already 2.75" and the T5 and V70R already push more HP in stock trim. Again my goal is 300hp at the upper edge I can do less also I just want to have something more like I am accustom to driving which has as been MBZ, BMW that have had v8's. My porsche flat 6 was nice but that engine is highly tuned from the factory.

Post by **jblackburn** » 06 Apr 2011, 23:09

I've had a K&N filter in every car I've owned. No complaints from me; just don't oil them up too much or you'll kill your mass airflow sensor.

On the S70, it didn't make a noticeable power difference. On my old carbureted Honda, I could immediately tell a difference.

Forget the intake spacer. It's pointless.

For the brakes, go with ceramics and a good slotted or drilled rotor. The big brake kit won't make that much of a difference for stopping once or twice very fast, and it won't fit with the XC wheels.