My '01 S60 T5 w/ 105k miles is now at the dealership because the hesitation/surging drives me NUTS, plus when slowing to a stop, the (almost new) transmission "clunks" into first gear a good part of the time.
The dealership called and said that the only code was for the brake pedal position sensor, and that they didn't notice ANY hesitation or surging (either the car suddenly fixed itself after a year of daily surging, or the tech has no physical sense of motion).
They say since there are no codes, the car is perfect.
Anything I should get them to check before they return the car to me with a diagnostic bill?
I'd like them to do an ETM sweep test, but without a "death code" on the ETM (as the service writer called it), they won't do one.
BTW, the car was bought NEW in 12/01, yet the official service date for the car came up as 10/01. Volvo refuses to recognize the first sale to a customer as the "In Service" date, saying maybe the dealership used the car (which had about 140mi when purchased) as a loaner car (news to me), so the ETM warranty ends on 10/11. They should TELL you when buying a new car that it isn't "NEW" as far as warranty goes.
Bob
My S60's at the dealership NOW
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precopster
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If the ETM is faulty there are two ways for you to go:
1) Find a tech from your current dealership or a different dealer who will take the car for a drive with you in the car and try to raise a valid claim, but you'll end up with another time bomb ETM.
2) Forget the Volvo OEM ETM and install an ETM from XeModex who have redesigned the angle sensor part of the ETM from a contact sensor to a non contacting sensor with a lifetime warranty on the sensor portion.
There is a whole discussion forum on the ETMs called Don's ETM Room, just hover your mouse over Volvo Forums, it's the second last one or go to: https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums ... m.php?f=12
I have just purchased a '99 V70 as a project and I hope that I won't be another victim as the owner was the first and has not replaced the ETM and it has around 155 K miles.
1) Find a tech from your current dealership or a different dealer who will take the car for a drive with you in the car and try to raise a valid claim, but you'll end up with another time bomb ETM.
2) Forget the Volvo OEM ETM and install an ETM from XeModex who have redesigned the angle sensor part of the ETM from a contact sensor to a non contacting sensor with a lifetime warranty on the sensor portion.
There is a whole discussion forum on the ETMs called Don's ETM Room, just hover your mouse over Volvo Forums, it's the second last one or go to: https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums ... m.php?f=12
I have just purchased a '99 V70 as a project and I hope that I won't be another victim as the owner was the first and has not replaced the ETM and it has around 155 K miles.
Current cars VW Transporter 2.5TDI, 2010 XC90 D5 R Design
So you are saying that even in the absence of ANY "code," you would be certain enough spend $600 on a new ETM?
I've also heard that most people also replace the mass airflow sensor at about 100k regardless of codes.
If you ARE saying that a 105k (mostly urban driving-harder on ETMs) my ETM is toast, I guess I should replace that first and see how the drivability is, then replace the MAF as necessary if drivability is less than sterling.
What is troubling is the idea of popping $600 into the car w/o really knowing that the ETM is the culprit at this point. I guess at least at this point, I don't "love" the car the way I did my past Volvos, so begrudge it the expense. Maybe after it's running perfectly I can grow to like it at least.
I bought the car from my nephew about a year ago after he (having spent $17,000 on dealer and independent shop maintenance since new) reached the end of HIS rope on the car, and I bought it thinking it could have many miles left in it. Within a thousand miles, I replaced the front axles and bearings (one of each on opposite sides bad so I did 'em all), and now this. Maybe I am being unfair, since much of what he spent was over-priced (the dealer got him for $1600 for a T-Belt change w/o a water pump replacement even, for instance).
Bob
I've also heard that most people also replace the mass airflow sensor at about 100k regardless of codes.
If you ARE saying that a 105k (mostly urban driving-harder on ETMs) my ETM is toast, I guess I should replace that first and see how the drivability is, then replace the MAF as necessary if drivability is less than sterling.
What is troubling is the idea of popping $600 into the car w/o really knowing that the ETM is the culprit at this point. I guess at least at this point, I don't "love" the car the way I did my past Volvos, so begrudge it the expense. Maybe after it's running perfectly I can grow to like it at least.
I bought the car from my nephew about a year ago after he (having spent $17,000 on dealer and independent shop maintenance since new) reached the end of HIS rope on the car, and I bought it thinking it could have many miles left in it. Within a thousand miles, I replaced the front axles and bearings (one of each on opposite sides bad so I did 'em all), and now this. Maybe I am being unfair, since much of what he spent was over-priced (the dealer got him for $1600 for a T-Belt change w/o a water pump replacement even, for instance).
Bob
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precopster
- Posts: 7543
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Actually I said "IF" the ETM is faulty. You'll need a positive diagnosis from someone with the skill & experience to do so.
I wouldn't go throwing parts at the car hoping the problem will go away. Has the throttle body been cleaned lately? You'd be surprised how much this may alter the car's throttle response and low-end torque. This is something you can do yourself.
Sounds like you need a good indie shop with the test gear to diagnose this car.
Read the threads as I suggested and do your own research before deciding to shell out.
If you intend to keep the car only a couple more years I would be using the factory warranty.
I wouldn't go throwing parts at the car hoping the problem will go away. Has the throttle body been cleaned lately? You'd be surprised how much this may alter the car's throttle response and low-end torque. This is something you can do yourself.
Sounds like you need a good indie shop with the test gear to diagnose this car.
Read the threads as I suggested and do your own research before deciding to shell out.
If you intend to keep the car only a couple more years I would be using the factory warranty.
Current cars VW Transporter 2.5TDI, 2010 XC90 D5 R Design
Therein lies the problem.
Here in my part of Texas, Volvos are relatively rare, so any service involving serious service (i.e., the ability to interface with Vida) involves a 35 mile drive to a Volvo dealership, or an independent shop of unknown quality*. I have a very good friend (2500mi away, unfortunately) with a very sophisticated computer (around $8k) he usues in his import-only repair business, and he said even HIS sometimes won't play nice with Volvos, though it's perfect with the other European and Japanese brands he specializes in.
I chose the dealership because I had hope of possible warranty coverage, though that seems a long shot at this point. If free, I could live with an OEM ETM from a dealer, since as I mentioned I am not in love with the car enough to spend "hobby dollars" on it.
The symptoms I have (hesitation/surge at light throttle) seem somewhat at odds with an ETM problem since my idle is exceptionally smooth (one characteristic of ETM failure appears to be lousy idle), but the other "easy" fixes suggested and done by supposedly the best independent shop in Dallas my nephew could find (5 new coils, plugs) failed to remedy the situation.
The fact the car "runs and drives", and throws no codes (other than a brake pedal position sensor Vida showed) underlines the typical "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude where people have said that since it's drivable, just drive it. The surge is very annoying, but does not render the car unusable. It just takes the pleasure out of driving the car for me since throttle input is not linear to engine output (when cruise works, it surges the same, so that ruled out the throttle pedal sensor).
I have NO doubt SOMETHING is making the throttle body butterfly open/close in a rhythmic fashion on light acceleration or while maintaining speed uphill. If I had to measure the amount, I'd say equal to adding/removing about 1/2" of throttle pedal movement, but I just don't know what it is!
I suppose I can just drive it as-is until the surge is so bad I can't stand it. Obviously, if the dealership says they don't notice it (REALLY?), most customers would accept it as is (though I can't imagine any tech worth his salt WOULDN'T notice it).
Since the surge is much worse with a heat-soaked engine, I was thinking maybe the air temp sensor was commanded too lean a mixture, but then I'd probably have a fuel trim MIL light illuminated.
Any, yes, I have been reading the threads (and asking questions) on about 4 Volvo forums for well over 6mo now.
Any suggestions most welcome!
Bob
*I haven't spoken w/ anyone in Dallas who raves about their shop.
Here in my part of Texas, Volvos are relatively rare, so any service involving serious service (i.e., the ability to interface with Vida) involves a 35 mile drive to a Volvo dealership, or an independent shop of unknown quality*. I have a very good friend (2500mi away, unfortunately) with a very sophisticated computer (around $8k) he usues in his import-only repair business, and he said even HIS sometimes won't play nice with Volvos, though it's perfect with the other European and Japanese brands he specializes in.
I chose the dealership because I had hope of possible warranty coverage, though that seems a long shot at this point. If free, I could live with an OEM ETM from a dealer, since as I mentioned I am not in love with the car enough to spend "hobby dollars" on it.
The symptoms I have (hesitation/surge at light throttle) seem somewhat at odds with an ETM problem since my idle is exceptionally smooth (one characteristic of ETM failure appears to be lousy idle), but the other "easy" fixes suggested and done by supposedly the best independent shop in Dallas my nephew could find (5 new coils, plugs) failed to remedy the situation.
The fact the car "runs and drives", and throws no codes (other than a brake pedal position sensor Vida showed) underlines the typical "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude where people have said that since it's drivable, just drive it. The surge is very annoying, but does not render the car unusable. It just takes the pleasure out of driving the car for me since throttle input is not linear to engine output (when cruise works, it surges the same, so that ruled out the throttle pedal sensor).
I have NO doubt SOMETHING is making the throttle body butterfly open/close in a rhythmic fashion on light acceleration or while maintaining speed uphill. If I had to measure the amount, I'd say equal to adding/removing about 1/2" of throttle pedal movement, but I just don't know what it is!
I suppose I can just drive it as-is until the surge is so bad I can't stand it. Obviously, if the dealership says they don't notice it (REALLY?), most customers would accept it as is (though I can't imagine any tech worth his salt WOULDN'T notice it).
Since the surge is much worse with a heat-soaked engine, I was thinking maybe the air temp sensor was commanded too lean a mixture, but then I'd probably have a fuel trim MIL light illuminated.
Any, yes, I have been reading the threads (and asking questions) on about 4 Volvo forums for well over 6mo now.
Any suggestions most welcome!
Bob
*I haven't spoken w/ anyone in Dallas who raves about their shop.
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