850 oil pressure issues, no oil in valvetrain

White850Turbo · Post by **White850Turbo** » 06 Jan 2006, 13:03

Sure. Here's a link to it. I'm glad to help people out with their Volvo's

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GregO · Post by **GregO** » 07 Jan 2006, 19:39

Okay fellas, here's the latest. Got the pan off (so much easier this time, knowing the procedure and having a clean pan to work with - 20 minutes once the wheels were off the ground). The O-rings in doubt were right where they were supposed to be. slightly squashed, no shreds or tears to indicate misalignment or anything.
So...I guess that leaves me with a bad oil pump. No other possibilities, right? Now, I think I'm going to dive in, do the oil pump, T belt, and water pump. From what I've researched, it seems to be pretty straightforward (famous last words).
Questions - y'all knew this was coming: Any special tools I need? I've done T-belts on our 240 Turbo, a Lancia (uuuggghh), and VW dohc. So I feel okay about being careful with timing marks, checking two, three times to make sure things are lined up. Any gremlins in this job? Any tips? Looks like I need a puller, right? What should I get? And finally, how do I know if the idler and tensioner are okay to re-use? I'm not loaded with parts money, but I don't want to do this twice either.
Thanks for all the advice!
Greg

Post by **matthew1** » 07 Jan 2006, 20:27

I've got a T belt change tooth locker -- it's an IPD item for 850s and 70s. It's yours if you want it, just PM or email me your address.

Never done the belt myself. Here's a thread that could help:
https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/chat/p ... php?t=4489

GregO · Post by **GregO** » 07 Jan 2006, 21:08

Thanks Matthew, I'll PM you directly. And thanks for the link for help. I've been looking for a new oil pump online, but I am having zero luck. I've tried probably seven or eight suppliers, and even Googled it. No one seems to carry it. Are these really that rare a replacement item? Any suggestions out there as to who may have an oil pump?
Thanks!
Greg

Post by **MadeInJapan** » 08 Jan 2006, 00:08

Go to the www.fcpgroton.com and get their 800 number and call them tomorrow. Even if not listed on their site, they can get the oil pump for you. In regards to the tensioner as well as pulley, the rule of thumb seems to be to replace these every-other TB change, so if you're at 140K miles change it, or if you're further along and don't know if they've been done, change them anyway to be on the safe side. Same goes for the water pump. Also, while you're in there, change the Serp. belt too, and check the serp. pulley for play and noise to be safe with it too...most people just grease this one and don't replace. Groton has all of these parts for cheaper than anyone else I know of. the cam-lock that Matt is offering you will be a great help. Hope what I posted helps. Good luck and hope none of this is a huge headache.

White850Turbo · Post by **White850Turbo** » 08 Jan 2006, 08:12

Yes, you will need a puller. Not sure if the Haynes manual covers it, but I have a full illustrated guide to the procedure. PM me w/ an e-mail addy and I'll send it to you in PDF's if you're interested.

And yes, I've never seen anyone selling replacement oil pumps for these cars as it is not common for them to fail. I'll second MIJ's suggestion for FCP Groton for the part.

GregO · Post by **GregO** » 08 Jan 2006, 11:28

Thanks Sean, I'll PM you and take you up on the offer for the pdf instructions. I'll take any and all help as I get ready to jump into the front of this engine. What type of puller is recommended? I don't own one and havn't ever needed one. Is it something I can get at A-Zone? Sears? And I have found no mention of a Bentley manual for 850's. Can this be true? Is my Haynes the best I'm going to find?
This forum has already been much more informative and helpful than the Haynes book.
Thanks!
Greg

saltydog · Post by **saltydog** » 10 Jan 2006, 05:59

dropped off site to watch wife have a baby.....while I agree that this has the hallmarks of a bad pump, it's an intermittant problem, right? although I understand that you have no pressure more often than you do. The pump is purely a simple, mechanical device that either works or it doesn't....doesn't make much sense to me that it works some times & not others. Now that you've got nothing flowing to the filter, it almost sounds like you've got a priming problem - like a fuel vapour lock & that would result from my favourite ailment, an oil galley blockage. Having held my pump in my hands after removal - it had done 140+kms, it showed little wear & very little play. I agree that its a fairly simple job to replace, especially compared to other vehicles, but unless you really need to go in there to replace that timing belt/tensioner, etc, I really don't know........Sean's right about those pumps being bullitproof & while nothing is imposible, the aftermarket doesn't cater to parts that are not in demand - & that one's hard to find, right? The design is a simple metal impeller spinning in a housing & you've made no mention of finding any metal debris in the pan when you had it off......I don't knoooowwww......

GregO · Post by **GregO** » 10 Jan 2006, 07:52

Congrats on the new, um, saltypup! Thanks for talking time away to help me with my oil flow problem. I am with you in theory here, as every vendor I try to purchase a pump fromis telling me they never go bad and that they don't offer them. So, I'm wracking the logical side of my limited brain here. I wondered about a priming problem, but found no mention of needing to or how to prime the pump. When I removed the pan, there was no evidence that oil had even been in the puckup tube further than the depth of the oil it was sitting in. No sign of oil being coaxed into the tube, or therefore beyond it to the filter.
I have checked, as well as possible, the journal from the tube to the filter, and found no issues (again, as well as one can check it). But I keep thinking that if that pump was pumping, there would be at least a bit of oil making the short trip to the filter, no? Any thoughts on how to prime the pump? Anyone know if this could be required?
I've seen no metal shavings in all the time spent in there, or in the drained oil. The probelm became less intermittent as I continued checking things. I haven't had pressure in several tries of starting the engine, and the top end has been dry for some time, probably the last ten startups. But it was intermittent to begin with.
Thanks for helping!
Greg

saltydog · Post by **saltydog** » 10 Jan 2006, 08:09

Thanks, girl. There is no requirement under normal circumstances to prime that pump or pick up, but we're not dealing with normal here (in a lot of respects). The whole problem that we share is circulation - period. Something in that oiling system is preventing the flow of lubricant, we're just trying to figure out what it is, but I'm convinced that it's something that replacing parts will not cure. I told you that it didn't work for me, but I think it's worth your while to find a dealer (GM,Ford,Toyota,anybody) who has some type of an engine flush service. I mentioned that Saab & VW dealers (at least in Canada) are having similar issues, & they may have a process. I know that some of these Lube shops have such a service, but I would hit a major chain (like Jiffy Lube or something) and get in detail what exactly they do before I'd let some high school kid work on my car. You want to find a process that removes debris by using an external filter, so that whatever crap they break free is pulled from the motor, not just relocated. I would certainly not continue to start the car, those rod & crank bearings have got to be dry by now. I guess you could try & find a fitting & prime the pump by accessing the oil pressure sensor opening, but that would be a VERY slow process & I doubt it would result in anything. I think you now know why that car was sitting on a lot......you got someone elses problem