850 oil pressure issues, no oil in valvetrain

GregO · Post by **GregO** » 10 Jan 2006, 14:22

Thanks again salty. I will make some calls regarding the flush/cleaner availability in our little town. I bought this car, having just been serviced, from an individual, and drove it several thousand trouble free miles before changing oil and filter, and not long after that the issue began. I drove it probably just long enough to like it sufficiently to want to keep it. It's perhaps the most comfortable highway cruiser I've driven from Volvo. That's why I'm up to it with this problem, and wanting to see it through.
I called the nearest Volvo dealer (Salt Lake) to ask about the engine flush; they don't do the type you describe, but he was fairly adamant that these pumps are very long-lived. Can't remember the last time they had one fail, if ever. He also says that if there is a blockage, it would have to be between the pick up tube and the filter. It's a distance of a few inches with a few twists and turns, but anything large enough to block that passage would certainly be too large to get through the pickup screen. Also said that if the engine is that badly gunked up, I would have seen a lot of it in the pan and screen, which I didn't.
Not sure where all this will lead, but he advised to clear out the passageway between pickup and filter as well as possible since I have the pan off still, and to perhaps remove the pump and inspect it before purchasing the replacement, since chances are I don't need to replace it. But I need to do the timing belt anyway, so it's just a little more work. Now he's even scratching his head, and will research a little. As with everyone else, when I told him why I was looking for the flush, he said "O-ring kit". Since I've done that already, he was at a loss. Said that he'd never had to prime the pump, but also said there should be some iol making it to the filter regardless. Then he said, hmmmm. My sentiments exactly.
Like you, he described the pump as a very simple mechanism that doesn't really wear or weaken since it's driven off the belt and not a cam or pushrod (ie, wear item) off the crankshaft. All it does is spin when the belt spins. And if it is broken somehow, I would be getting an awful racket from the pump housing, which I'm not.
No real new info here, just keeping you all up to date. Kind of like a support group. Thanks for listening!
Greg

saltydog · Post by **saltydog** » 11 Jan 2006, 05:04

Good luck....I'm being a little selfish in following you in the hope that whatever you may find might help me. I've all but given up on this particular shitbox of mine - upper strut mounts at Christmas, now ABS control unit blown....haven't had any ETM trouble -YET - but I gotta get this oil warning lamp to stay off if I'm going to have any hope of dumping out of this thing at an out of province auction & as much as I want to believe that Volvo doesn't deserve to see another penny of my money, I keep stopping to look over XC90's almost daily.......I think I've lost all judgement to be quite honest, so take anything I say with a grain of salt.

saltydog · Post by **saltydog** » 11 Jan 2006, 12:57

there is one possibility thats a longshot but.......the oil pump isn't actually belt driven, it bolts to the block & is gear driven off the crank. IF somehow that pump worked itself loose & either worked its way out of it's fittings or off it's gear drive...........like I said, a longshot.

GregO · Post by **GregO** » 11 Jan 2006, 15:16

Okay Salty, I'm a little confused about the drive mechanism for the pump. The Volvo dealer must have said something like, "as long as the belt is turning, the pump is turning." Meaning that it's driven by the crank shaft, same as the belt is, and I mistook that for the pump being driven by the belt. I could've sworn I heard him say the belt drives the pump, but after I read your note, I looked more closely at the diagrams sent by Sean (thanks again!) and now I see that the pump housing fits onto the crankshaft. Am I seeing that correctly?
So, in the longshot you mention, I'd have a huge crank seal leak most likely. It's dry there, thanfully. But, the gear off the crank that drives the pump could have sheared or something, and is no longer spinning the pump, right?
I am sure some of you are saying, "just take it off and see!" I'm getting there, just haven't had time yet. And salty, I hope I find something on my broken down POS (but not for long I hope) that'll help you get oil flowing again. I'm curious, and naive, enough to dive in and hopefully that'll help someone else with an 850 coronary.
I keep telling myself to look on the bright side. I could be doing this on a Lancia or something! I shouldn't rag on those cars, they were all very good to me. Funny, when I was young, it was Lancias and Alfas, and now it's a Volvo wagon...and not even turbo! I must be getting old.
Thanks for the help, hang in there. I'll be crawling under there in the next day or so, and I'll let y'all know what I pull out of this thing.
Greg

saltydog · Post by **saltydog** » 12 Jan 2006, 04:58

yea, the gear on the end of the crank is what I was suggesting - pump fits over it like a hub. Can't believe that something like that could just shear off, but if perhaps a couple of teeth broke & it's been jumping for a while, that might explain why sometimes you had oil & others you didn't....sometimes the drive gear would catch, sometimes not. Any broken parts would fall off inside that timing cover, not in the pan......certainly would be flukey but this is hardly a standard set of circumstances. Just remember to buy the Volvo timing belt.....everyone else will say that there are cheaper belts with the same quality, but I would trust the factory timing marks much more & the price differential is nominal at best...plus I at least get dealer trade on that stuff I seem to buy so much of it.......that's not good.

saltydog · Post by **saltydog** » 12 Jan 2006, 12:42

Grego....I know this isn't about me, but changed the oil in the '01 XC this morning replacing the synthetic with 5W30 mineral as the Volvo tech line suggested. Filter housing (remember canister style on 01 up) had a lot of crap in it suggesting that I'm still possibly benefiting from that engine flush.....so far today, NO oil light. Driven about 40 miles around toronto today & it's like 50+ degrees out & so far nothing. I'm really going to feel stupid if it was the synthetic causing some of my trouble all along. This of course, does nothing to help you....other than perhaps give you hope.

saltydog · Post by **saltydog** » 13 Jan 2006, 13:58

ignore last posting, oil light giving me a sunburn

saltydog · Post by **saltydog** » 13 Jan 2006, 13:58

ignore last posting, oil light giving me a sunburn

GregO · Post by **GregO** » 13 Jan 2006, 21:51

Ooow Salty. I read that first post and was very happy for you. Then I read the next and was bummed instantly. I'm pulling for you, man. You've helped me a bunch with mine, and I was hoping that good karma had been like a boomerang for you.
Maybe you are still working some sludge loose, though, which can't be a bad thing. Unless it comes loose and lives to clog again before finding the filter.
I hope to get up close to mine again this weekend. I've been away for a couple days working, no doubt earning money to pour into my Volvo wagon. Saw plenty of them flying down the highways and wondered how many of those oil lights were blaring! As I criused along at a blurring 60mph, no headwind, in my VW bus. But the good part is, it was a sunny and warm day so the fact it has no heat really didn't matter. And I could hear the radio, so I know it had oil pressure!
Stopped in to the Volvo dealer to price an oil pump. Ouch. Nearly ~400 smackers, and they'll have to order it because -all together now- "They never go out".
But hey, it's Friday the 13th. Maybe you and I will wake up tomorrow, it'll all be over, and we'll both have oil flowing like the Colorado river in our wagons!
Or something like that. Here's to both of us and our POS clogged-up Volvos.
Thanks for the note. next session sometime this weekend.
Greg

Post by **MadeInJapan** » 14 Jan 2006, 09:12

Can the oil pump not be ordered from groton at a substantial savings? I never order from the Volvo dealer unless it's an absolute last option.