1996 850 Turbo Sedan stalling and sputtering

gerbilfood · Post by **gerbilfood** » 02 Jul 2011, 17:27

This issue has been going on for some time. It started about 18 months ago. I was idling, and the engine started to run rough. RPM's dropped and eventually, the engine stalled. From that point on, that day, it seemed to have issues running at speed and accelerating. Then, I didn't drive it for a few days. It then ran fine. Every now and again, especially on hot days, this issue reappears. Sometimes it leaves me stranded. It runs fine until I stop somewhere. Then, starting it up again results in stuttering and stalling. Itruns really rough and sounds like crap. If it sits for hours and hours, and usually if the day has cooled off by then, it will start up and run fine again. This has happened over and over again, no matter what I have done so far to repair it.
I have replaced the spark plugs, spark plug wires, cap and rotor, and coil pack. The cap and rotor were my latest attempt. When I do these replacements, the problem disappears for a while, or lessens significantly. But eventually it comes back.
I am worried that the Turbo is the issue here. Which would probably total this car. It has less than 76,000 miles on it, but is also about 15 years old. When I replaced the distributor cap, I pulled the turbo induction tube from the turbo outlet. When I did, I noticed there was oil inside, resting on the inner lip of the outlet. I didn't know if that was good or bad, so I googled it. Turbo + engine oil = bad. Is that correct? I know nothing of turbos, as far as replacing parts on them.

So, what I am hoping is that there is still hope here for this car. Based on this information, does anyone have a sense of what this might be? Does it sound like an issue who's solution is known? Am I boned?

Thanks!

Post by **Ozark Lee** » 03 Jul 2011, 06:08

Welcome to MVS,

There are a number of things that could be causing your problem but lets start with some basic stuff.

Is your Check Engine Light on?

Have you had the car scanned for error codes? Even if you don't have a scan tool you can normally either get the codes read or rent a scan tool from about any of the chain auto parts store.

The oil in the intercooler lines is, to an extent, normal and it is as a result of the Volvo PCV system. You may have a plugged up PCV system that will make the oil buildup worse. A quick check there is to pull the dipstick while the engine is running to see of you have vapors puffing out of the dipstick tube.

Post back any code information that you can read and we can work from there.

...Lee

DouglasTrumbo · Post by **DouglasTrumbo** » 03 Jul 2011, 07:42

My car had similar problems, and on hot days it also seemed to be worse. I have replaced the fuel pump, plug wires, rotor and distributor cap. But after scanning the car the only error clode I have for ignition and fuel systems it 3-1-4 on A2 which is the cam shaft position sensor. It costs about 165-185 dollars at the parts house and it a really easy change.

gerbilfood · Post by **gerbilfood** » 03 Jul 2011, 17:56

Thanks for the responses so far. The car does not have a check engine light on at this time. When you mention "vapour," coming out of the dip-stick down-pipe, do you mean as in a gas like vapour? Or would it be like smoke. I just want to make sure I am looking for the right thing. It will be a race around the car to see it since the car does not run for that long

Thanks for the info about the cam-shaft sensor. I had previously thought about replacing that since the car has never cold-started on the first try. I will have to rent a code reader in order to see if it is kicking up codes. Is it the case that the car would display errors but not show a trouble light on the dash?
Since tomorrow is the 4th, I will have to take this up on Tuesday. Thanks for all of the help so far!

Post by **Ozark Lee** » 03 Jul 2011, 19:18

With the dip stick tube test you can normally see it and it will puff oil vapor. You can normally see it as puffs of smoke but the real issue is pressure. You can slip a balloon over the dipstick and see if it tries to inflate. If it (the balloon) tries to inflate while the engine is running the PCV is clogged and needs to be "serviced" which really means replaced.

Volvo's will post codes that don't meet the threshold for triggering the CEL so give a code scan a shot.

...Lee

gerbilfood · Post by **gerbilfood** » 08 Jul 2011, 18:54

Sorry for the delay in posting. I was able to do the dip-stick oil tube test. There was no vapour or back pressure. I ran a code check on it, and got six back. The behavior of the car now is that it will start up, sputter, rev up to higher RPM's, calm down and idle, then repeat. Here are the codes:

P1310 - Manufacturer Control Ignition System or Misfire
P0304 - Cylinder 4 Misfire
P0305 - Cylinder 5 Misfire
P0300 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0301 - Cylinder 1 Misfire
P0172 - System Too Rich (Bank 1)

So, at this point I am not sure where to look. Could it be injectors? Vacuum? Could it still be the PCV?

Thanks!

jimr2345 · Post by **jimr2345** » 08 Jul 2011, 21:59

I just had similar codes with my 97 850R turbo. This is what I did to fix it. Cap, Rotor, New wires and plugs. Watch the plug selection, I think the guys here say to use copper plugs. That should take car of all but P1310 and P0172.

For P0172, which is normally a vacuum leak, I tested all the vacuum lines with starting fluid. While the car is running, I sprayed all the vacuum lines with starting fluid and if one is bad, the starting fluid will get sucked in and the motor will rev a bit. It seems a common cause is a vacuum elbow. The Volvo part number is 9155862 and costs about 6.00. I replaced mine and P0172 was gone.

It is located down and to the right of the back side of the the alternator and under the intake manifold. Left side of the manifold. Best to use a flash light to see it even in the day light.

...Lee posted this in another post:
"P0172 is normally triggered by either a vacuum leak or a dirty MAF sensor. The usual culprit if you have a turbo is the vacuum elbow on the end of the intake manifold, behind the alternator. It is very difficult to get to that elbow."

It's not that hard to get to if you use about a 12-16 inch pair of needle nose pliers. I bought a 16" needle nose from Harbor Freight for about 13.00. Simple fix, worked for me.

I cant thank these guys enough for all their help and eduction!

begovic · Post by **begovic** » 08 Jul 2011, 22:27

Clear the codes and see if they pop up again. Clean yor MAF sensor, throttle plate and idle control valve.
Did you gap new plugs to 0.28?

gerbilfood · Post by **gerbilfood** » 09 Jul 2011, 12:50

Thanks for the info. I am going to test the vacuum system today. It would make sense that it is worse on hot days as well.

I was obsessed with gapping the plugs correctly. I bought Bosch Platinum plugs because they were on sale and had a longer life, according to the cardboard box they came in. They were gapped way too big. I saw the recommendation for the copper plugs. I will definitely look for those the next time I am at a Napa store. Which I am not too often. I did also see a recommendation for a wireset that only Napa sells. :-\ I don't know how big of a deal that is, but I am hoping to get my money out of the Bosch wires.

Thanks!

gerbilfood · Post by **gerbilfood** » 09 Jul 2011, 18:07

Do you need to approach this from under the car?