$20,000...for what?

[zhenya]

Those reasons are exactly why I suggested the Legacy, it is much more refined and closer to the V70 in terms of luxury. I sat in a Forester of your generation and felt the same way. But, it's a utilitarian car and it has it's purpose, and does it well.

Honestly I have never seen a 2005+ Subaru with any rust, nor have I heard of it on the forums I frequent. One car had a manufacturing defect that caused the rear fender to rot out, but that's the extent of it. A late model rusty Subaru is an exception, not the norm.

Our Forester is the LL Bean edition; full leather giant sunroof, etc. I've been in plenty of Legacy's as well, and they are slightly nicer, but still pretty basic. (Volvo and Subaru pretty much rule the local market it seems). The car has been decent enough, and we may well end up with another Subaru; I just really dislike the build quality and they have an engine reliability record that is pretty much the worst in the industry. (How they've managed to maintain a reputation as reliable through this is a mystery to me).

2005+ cars don't usually have obvious perforations yet, but if you look closely in the wheel wells and the back trunk decks, bottoms of doors, etc. you can generally see the beginnings of it. The paint is extremely thin and anywhere it gets blasted through will be rusting soon.

[tjts1]

Yeah, subaru really puts modern volvo's to shame. The build quality just isn't there anymore in newer volvos. The reason we still like these old volvos is because they're practical and cheap to maintain. Newer volvos are neither of those things. They don't even sell wagons in the US anymore.

[jimmyboy]

Argh! I just wrote this and the site crashed and it went away

This reminds me of when I had an old beat-up 940 wagon. I was sitting in rush-hour traffic after work, and I met my wife that night when she rear-ended me on a busy highway in an '01 Subaru Outback. It wasn't a hard hit - 25 mph or so, but her car was badly mangled, and she came out of the accident with a broken wrist and sprained ankle.

Once I helped comfort her over the shock til the paramedics got there, I got her talking and it was really...love at first sight. Besides, she said, "I never really liked that car anyway."

Since that day, she got a 2005 Highlander to replace the Subaru, and I loved every bit of that car. It was trouble-free for 5 years, a great highway crusier, and - we don't get snow much here, but when we got a few inches dumped on us 2 years ago and everyone was getting stuck, that car crawled through the snow like it wasn't even there. Just last year, my wife and my 4-year-old son were hit in the Highlander by a drunken driver at 45 mph in the side. They both walked away from the accident unharmed - my son with some minor brusing from the seatbelts.

We were stuck between getting another one of those or another Volvo. I gave my wife the '99 S70, while I went to look for another car. I ended up with a '98 S70, and we took the insurance money and spent it on some much-needed home repairs instead on our first house.

For whatever that's worth; I just kind of feel like sharing my experience

[holler1]

I keep talking about it...have asked this question before, but it's a new year...and as yet, never pulled the trigger. Time to move on from my '95 850. It runs fine, but at 200,000...it's losing power and, you know, it's just time!
I need a wagon...given $20,000...what Volvo wagon has the least problems? I am done with pre-2000 cars. I want all the safety and handling of a 'newer' car. I thought of going to the dealer to get a 'pre-owned', thus the warranty...it would be nice to be safe for a few years against repair bills.
I also considered, gulp, a Subaru...but I can't wrap my head around it.
After having owned (over my 42 years of driving): P-1800, 140, 240, 740, 760, 850, S40...I have gotten used to Volvos.

Alan,
Recognizing you have a high degree of Volvo dedication, I think your strategy to buy a fully warranteed pre-owned Volvo makes sense. We bought our 98 V70 AWD as a dealer-certified car in 2001. It had 30K+ miles with a 100K warranty, and the warranty came in very useful. The last problem it had was the AC and the dealer replaced the evaporator just before the warranty ran out. There were several other fairly expensive items paid for. After 100K, I learned to fix it myself. If you stick with Volvo, I recommend the dealer-certified route. We all know that Volvos have high repair costs per unit and plenty of gear to fail. But it's truly hard to beat the looks of the newer Volvos- outstanding.

If you want to go outside Volvo, there are lots of good options. If I were in the market for an absolutely reliable "wagon like" vehicle (almost all "red bullets" on the Consumer Reports ratings), it would be hard to go wrong with any Toyota SUV (Rav4 or Highlander, depending on size) or the Honda CRV or Pilot. The Rav4 and CRV are a lot bigger than they used to be and I think they look great. I know the Subarus are reliable too and it's the most popular vehicle in my area, but I just don't like the styling of the Forester or the engine type. That is just individual preference. If you value styling or innovation, and value reliability a little less, consider a VW, with the "auto-manual" double clutch shifter and/or the clean diesel engine. I love the idea of fast manual shifting without a clutch. I think if I were in the market now for a small wagon or sedan, I would go for the VW TDI and take a risk with reliability. Not sure if it is offered in AWD or not. Right now I have a 2008 Ford Fusion AWD with 60K and it's still doing great (Ford is back!), but I think that is not offered as a wagon.