New V60 breaking new ground

[jimmy57]

The first mass market diesel autos in US were GM diesels that were lightly modded Oldsmobile engines converted to diesel.
They had too few head bolts for the bore size and a weak block design to base a diesel engine on. The fuel systems were inferior too. The problems put a bad taste in consumer's mouths.

Diesels require expensive emissions hardware and low volumes make for little or no profits given the cost of compliance testing and certification. Euro standards a different enough that Euro spec motors can'r be simply dropped into US bound cars. FOr Volvo the diesels sell in great enough numbers in the other markets to use all the current production with a bit of a shortage. If US got diesels it would be at the expense of some other markets NOT getting their diesels.

The V50 and V70 were S L O W sellers and if you look at others who sold wagons here most all are withdrawn for now. Buyers want SUVs or CUVs.

[tjts1]

CAFE hates wagons. Under the old rules, trucks didn't count against a manufacturer's CAFE, thus SUVs (trucks) supplanted wagons (cars).

Not true. Most wagons today are classified as trucks because of the removable back seat loophole. The old Dodge Magnum, current E class wagon, XC70, outback etc all classified as trucks. Even the PT Cruiser was considered a truck. The easy rule of thumb is if you can buy it from the factory with tinted windows, it counts as a truck as far as CAFE is concerned. Federal law prohibits manufacturers from selling new passenger cars with tinted windows but fails to mention trucks.

The V50 and V70 were S L O W sellers and if you look at others who sold wagons here most all are withdrawn for now. Buyers want SUVs or CUVs.

Because they were over priced gas guzzlers with not enough interior space. Volvo didn't have any trouble selling wagons in the days of the 850 and first 2 generations of the V70. Subaru has no trouble selling its outback wagon. They dropped the Legacy wagon because the outback is more profitable.

[fazool]

America hates wagons, diesels and manuals. Why?

"Family Truckster" Watch the movie Family Vacation with Chevy Chase and you will see.

Station wagons were the epitome of suburban middle class life in the 60's. But Dodge hit the right balance with passenger seats, cargo capacity and car-like drive when they created the Caravan and with it the whole mini van class.

It rode like a station wagon and seated people like a station wagon, but you could haul stuff like a cargo van. Best of all worlds. Minivan sales skyrocketed and there was no need for a wagon anymore.

Because of convenience and flexibility wagons fell (far) out of favor and with the neighbors not having one, you looked and felt odd having one. They became passe and viewed as a throwback to be ridiculed.

Just like big fins from the 50's or murals from the 70's, they fell out of style and now people view them as detestable.

As for manuals its all about convenience - its hard to hold my slurpee and Big Mac while texting on my cell phone and shaving if I have to drop something to shift.

As for diesel, its simply not popular enough and, again, its inconvenient. If the ratio of diesel-to-gasoline pumps was not so bad then people might buy a diesel. And the ones introduced in the US were sluggish and smelly and sooty. When Americans think of diesel thats what they think of.

Superior benefits be aside - its all about the culture and marketing .

[matthew1]

Dad! You must have jumped the car 50 yards!

Shut up, Rusty. That's nothing to be proud of.

[under his breath... 50 yards ]

Sorry I took this so far off topic. I broke my own rule. OP, contact me if you'd like me to split it off.

Didn't Europe adopt cleaner diesel fuel requirements (literally: not as dark exhaust) decades ago, thus avoiding the link in consumers' heads between "diesel" and "pollution"?

[jblackburn]

Crossovers are (and have been for a while now) the new big thing in America now. Car-like platform, SUV/minivan like space inside, and higher ride height. Out on I81 sometimes, surrounded by huge trucks and things on both sides, I'd sometimes feel safer if I had a bigger car.

And, my parents having owned a crossover when we were younger, they're much nicer than normal SUV's, ride nice, and they're not too bad of gas hogs, either. We had a Ford Expedition, then went to the Acura MDX. Worlds nicer, more power from the 3.5 V6 than the Ford had from a huge 5.4L V8, and around the same price.

Minivans are just blah. We've got 3 of them as work vehicles (Dodge Caravans), and they can barely climb hills on the highway around here without being at 4000 RPM and roll around the corners on the country roads like a whale.

VW has done very well with its TDI engines here in the US and they have quite a following. The new (2009 and later) TDI's are AMAZING engines - you can barely even tell it's a diesel from inside (or outside) the car. If I could put up with owning another unreliable but fun to drive car, I'd probably get a Golf TDI.

Even as nice as I'm sure the Volvo wagons are, I'd never own one. Now the XC60? Yum.

[precopster]

As far as the thread shifting focus; not really worried. It's all good discussion and I'm learning more about the US car industry from this thread than I have from any other.

Justin you mention the TDI engines in VWs which are also massivley succesful here in Oz. Is the VW Caddy sold there? Perhaps under another name....? It's a long wheelbase work van with a car bonnet and high roof.

Also Renault (Kangoo) , Citroen (Berlingo) , GM Holden (Combo which is an Opel derived model), have versions of these with both diesel and petrol models. They are Massively successful here for small business and even though diesel fuel sells at around 8-10% more it hasn't deterred the buying public. Diesel versions of high volume sellers are very common here, except for the large versions of Ford and GM Holden's RWD tanks (I call them this because we too have very large family sedans and wagons though Ford's latest Falcon wagon has also been dropped)

The pic below is our top seller in wagon form but there is also a sedan variant with 3.5 l 160KW V6 and huge V8s with GM's 5.7 litre powerhouses

[tjts1]

The problem is the price of diesel fuel. I took this pic a couple of weeks ago. I've seen the gap between regular unleaded and diesel up to $1.15/gallon in some places. The more people replace gasoline with diesel fueled vehicles, the more expensive diesel fuel is going to get. Diesel is dead in America.

[jblackburn]

Every semi truck in the entire nation runs on it. Diesel's not going to go away.

There is the price gap for fuel, sure, but keep in mind diesels can also easily get the same gas mileage a Prius can - up to 50 mpg in the VW's - without being a stupid hybrid and actually have power to merge out onto a highway. And you don't have to replace expensive, terrible for the environment battery packs 4-5 years down the road. And a new diesel in a similar car configuration costs significantly less than a new hybrid up front.

Precopster, never seen a VW work van here. We have the Dodge Sprinter and something else that I can't recall but looks similar. The VW EuroVan was brought here for a little bit, but like 3 people bought one and they backed that out of the market.


4 cylinder cars are getting better gas mileage than ever before - much of the compact segment now gets 40 mpg highway. The onset of new 6-speed transmissions (or god-awful CVT transmissions) and direct injection in a lot of models helps automakers achieve that. Years ago, they wouldn't put anything more than a 4-speed auto in the 4 cylinder models, saving the 5 or 6 speeds for the V6 versions. That has changed as people now want both power and gas mileage from smaller engined cars. New BMW's (who would think BMW cares about gas mileage!) even shut down the engine at stoplights.

V6 engines are starting the trend of dying off in sedans and being replaced with Turbo 4 cylinders for the more powerful engine option - Buick Lacrosse, Hyundai Sonata, Nissan's going that direction, and Ford's working on an Ecoboost 4 cylinder for the Fusion (their Ecoboost V6 will soon be replacing most V8 engine options, once Americans let go of the good old American concept of having a fuel-thirsty V8 under the hood). As those pick up, I think those engines will also show up in the crossover cars based on these models. Those that choose to remain with a V6 (Honda Accord, Toyota Camry for now - both great engines) as a larger engine option have adapted variable cylinder management that can shut down 2 or 3 cylinders when unneeded to save fuel.

[tjts1]

Every semi truck in the entire nation runs on it. Diesel's not going to go away.

Thats the problem. Trying to run cars off of truck fuel. Most of the world is replacing old gasoline fueled cars with diesel cars and pushing up the fuel. The US is a net importer of crude oil and refined gasoline and a net exporter of refined diesel fuel, mostly to China and Europe. Diesel car driver (and truck drivers) are competing with the rest of the world for fuel. The price gap between gasoline and diesel is only going to get worse from here gasoline engines get more efficient or get replaced by hybrids and EVs. Diesel cars are a dead end.

There is the price gap for fuel, sure, but keep in mind diesels can also easily get the same gas mileage a Prius can - up to 50 mpg in the VW's - without being a stupid hybrid and actually have power to merge out onto a highway. And you don't have to replace expensive, terrible for the environment battery packs 4-5 years down the road. And a new diesel in a similar car configuration costs significantly less than a new hybrid.

Well that prius is still burning 20% cheaper fuel while getting the same 50mpg so what have you gained? As for your 4-5 year claim, well the Prius has a 150k mile warranty on its battery. There are many taxis that have gone over 300k on the original power pack. Not sure what you're on about here.
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1023 ... ttery-myth

[jblackburn]

Hmm, didn't know that about the Prius - I've just heard some auto reviewers ragging on hybrids for that reason. Did some googling - apparently the batteries do stand up very well to lots (200,000+ miles) of use, and they do have an 8-year/100,000 mile warranty (10/150K in CA).

But I still wouldn't ever buy one.