Hard Steering (very)

Post by **LamboSE5** » 28 Jan 2012, 07:24

I have a '98 S70 T5 SE with 224,000 kms.

I don't know all the history with it. I messaged the previous owner (who was the second owner, since 70,000 kms) and told him what I was experiencing. He said maybe because it wasn't driven much recently, because it's cold? (weather. I did these "eye roll" - he said "maybe because it's cold" to a number of questions), and also said he changed the steering 'oil' last year - that could be the problem - wrong stuff?

Symptoms: Upon startup of the car, first start, it's very hard to turn the wheel left or right - it requires two hands and quite a bit of force. Once turned form lock to lock about 3-5 times it's fairly normal then. There is still the odd spot in the range of motion (once its back to "fairly" normal) that is a little easier (a little 'more' normal).

It only makes the same noises as my last '98 T5 SE - when you reach lock up in either direction. The pump noise I guess. Which causes the idle RPM to dip a little bit, that's normal correct? I'm in park this whole time. But I tried in Drive with brake pedal down with no noticeable difference from these described symptoms.

I have to drive this car about 1200 kms pretty soon and want to solve this if possible.

I'm thinking of doing this Power Steering Fluid flush: https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums ... php?t=8644 but I need a few additional details because it's a camry and I can't see exactly where lines are going. And not sure how to stop the flow once started, and when to "top up"-while it's being flushed-so as not to get air in there. I really(!) don't want to have that happen.

Everything I've read now, including my Haynes (even though it's not caught up with recent models - which mine isn't) suggests/points to Dexron Type ATF fluid for the correct fluid.

What I've done so far is: A friend suggested trying that lucas stop leak stuff, which I did. That stuff is thick like...really thick stuff... cold corn syrup

. Hasn't seemed to help much. But I haven't been driving the car much, still needs inspection and isn't "legal" yet.

Any help is greatly appreciated. I hope I gave enough details

Thanks a lot, I have two cars I need to get to stripping.

Regards,

-J

Oh, I just remembered to ask: This wouldn't be Tie Rod End(s), control arms or something would it? I realize it could be the Rack. I hope real hard that it isn't. Or the pump... I kinda think it's the fluid, or the pump...And hope, again, it's not the Rack.

Thanks.

Post by **bronxnativ** » 28 Jan 2012, 07:32

Could be a number of things: check the PS fluid level, check for leaking PS hoses, AND do get under the car (jack it up then place jack stands) and fully inspect the Power Steering rack for any leaks. I'm sure that doing all this will help you find the problem.

Post by **LamboSE5** » 28 Jan 2012, 08:12

The level is good, I checked it. Then again after using the Lucas.

I''ll have to degrease and pressure wash underneath so it's clean before I'll be able to notice anything 'leaking' underneath though...don't you think?

And; I guess that pulley (power steering pulley) to the left of the res. has to come off to do that flush? which means the belt does too? Or can I just take of the metal 'guard" and access the lines there?

Post by **jimmy57** » 28 Jan 2012, 08:41

The symptoms you describe usually means the seal on the power piston inside rack is sticking in its groove. External leaks won't cause your symptoms. The wrong oil could cause it as that could shrink the seal. The fluid is bypassing the integrated piston on the rack which means it isn't pushing the piston to help move the wheels. When the piston gets to the end of the housing it moves in it stops fluid flow and you hear the pump's relief valve whine which is normal. A faulty pump can cause the low/no assist but usually a bad pump won't whine as it isn't making enough pressure to open relief valve. Cracked internal pump body is noisey and pump would make a noise like it is low on fluid.
No pulley removal needed. The return hose is at bottom of reservoir on the front side. On that car the reservoir is piggybacked on pump. The return hose is clamped and the other hose( pressure) has a metal end and is screwed into pump. You do not need to remove pressure hose. You can make a cap for that fitting on res from a 2 inch long piece of 3/8 inch hose with a bolt or some other suitable something for a plug clamped into that piece of hose. The removed hose has to run into a bucket so figure some way to attach a hose to the removed hose. I have used an old piece of garden hose that will slip over the hose and I've used a piece of 3/8 steel tubing to couple the removed hose to a length of 3/8 hose.

Post by **LamboSE5** » 28 Jan 2012, 08:45

Ok - thank you.

If the problem is the first thing you mentioned; "the seal on the power piston inside the rack sticking in its groove."...a fluid flush likely won't help right? It'll need a new rack?

Post by **jimmy57** » 28 Jan 2012, 08:59

Fluid flush can help. I would do fluid flush first and see what happens. It may not be an instant fix. If that doesn't do it then a new rack will be needed.
Power steering problems are tricky to diagnose.
No assist can be pump but usually it would be reverse of what you are seeing. It would be somewhat OK cold and get worse as fluid gets warm and gets thinner or it would be noisey. The normal whining noise of relief valve would be a sign that pump is not the problem. If my car were showing these signs I'd flush it and see if it improves or is resolved before I did anything else.
GM rack and pinions in the 80's and early 90's were notorious for this and they called it "morning sickness". The seal would shrink on power piston and then get warm and heal itself. This is not a common problem on Volvos that I have ever seen but wrong fluid could shrink the seal.

Post by **LamboSE5** » 28 Jan 2012, 18:00

Thanks for the advice. I'm in the middle of stripping another S70 T5 right now, can you point me in the direction of a great "Rack removal thread" if you know of one please?

Post by **MadeInJapan** » 28 Jan 2012, 19:38

It isn't a flush but there is a write-up in the repair database that I put up a few years ago of sucking the fluid out and replacing it. I would do that before a flush (much easier) and let the new recirculate and then do this a few more times. I would say that in the long run it will be as good as a flush. Good luck!

Post by **LamboSE5** » 31 Jan 2012, 18:22

Like a turkey baster/syringe with hose removal? Ok.
I used a turkey baster to remove about 10-11 ounces from the reservoir a week or two ago, and replaced with lucas power steering stop leak - as suggested by a friend. It wasn't any noticeable help.

But I would like to change it out (by whichever method) for some good Mobil ATF.
Mobil 1 is expensive, I better check manual for how much the system takes.

--- Dammit, just lost my post *sigh*

0.8 litres, which is about 27 fl/ounces. So, one bottle for a flush (with extra to be safe), or a few drain and fills of about 12 ounces each. Cool.

I'd really like to get all that lucas stuff out though, one way or another.

I also called volvo today to ask them about ATF fluid for Power steering. The guy was very helpful, he said before anything else to try spraying down the U-Joint(s?) with a good penetrating oil and told me what they use. I asked a service guy at can.tire for an equivalent, he said this:

fluid-film-gear-patrol.jpg

I'll give it a shot

Thank you.

begovic · Post by **begovic** » 31 Jan 2012, 21:52

Hey Lambo.
I had same issue with hard steering after cold start.
Lucas stop leak was in the system. After I flushed old stuff out and fill it with ATF everithing went back to normal.