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850 Transmission in Limp Mode

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's P80 platform cars -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, including 850 R, 850 T-5R, 850 T-5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

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1800ES
Posts: 58
Joined: 27 February 2012
Year and Model: '73 1800ES
Location: Plainsboro, NJ

850 Transmission in Limp Mode

Post by 1800ES »

I think my new-to-me '96 850 Platinum Edition wagon doesn't like me. First it breaks down on my way home the very day I bought it, and now I seem to be having transmission problems (this is why I have avoided automatics like the plague up until now). Anyway, here's the story so far:

Last week, while driving home about 100 miles from a job site, a couple times I heard a short "whistle" type of sound. It was kind of random, but it seemed to occur mainly when I was rolling along in slower traffic. I hadn't noticed it on the highway, but did hear it 2-3 times when I got into stop and go traffic on local roads. At the time, since we had just done some major repairs on the cooling system, I was afraid maybe the car was overheating and pressure was bring released from the cooling system. It almost had that kind of sound like steam escaping from a pressurized relief. Got out my Torque app on my phone and it turned out the coolant temp was fine as well as the oil temp, so I was confused, but relieved.

A few days after first noticing the random sound initially, it had now turned into a more regular occurance, except now it was more of a whining type of sound that increased in pitch as I would accelerate, especially in 1st and 2nd gears. As soon as the car shifted, it would drop in pitch and then climb again as I continued to accelerate. Letting off the throttle briefly would sometimes make it go away completely. It didn't happen every time I started from a dead stop, but it seemed to be becoming more frequent. When decelerating, the same thing happened in reverse; the pitch would drop as the car slowed. It scared me a couple times because it sounded almost exactly like the siren on an emergency vehicle winding down. During the several days this was going on, the car drove and shifted perfectly normally and there were no warning lights on the dash. There was just the noise. It didn't happen in reverse and it only happened when the engine was under load.

This past weekend we decided to do a complete transmission flush to see if that would help matters. 12 quarts later, the ATF fluid is now clean, but the noise is still there, unfortunately. I almost hesitated to do the flush at all because my old 1800ES had an automatic when I bought it. It was the original transmission and had over 211,000 miles on it. We thought we'd do it a favor by changing the fluid and filter. The damn thing died within a month after we did that. I still wonder if it would have kept going if we had just left it alone! But anyway...

Finally, while I was driving home from work today, the car entered into limp mode. A couple miles after I left the office, the transmission light (arrow) on the dash started flashing, the check engine light came on, and I noticed the car was now starting from a stop in a higher gear. Then a couple miles from home, just to add to the already festive display on the dashboard, the "Tracs off" and ABS lights also lit up. I've had the Tracs and ABS lights do that before even when the transmission was working fine, so I'm pretty sure the ABS module is having issues, but that's the least of my worries right now.

The Torque app on my phone, which has read some fault codes on the car before, was registering nothing at all today despite the fact that all those warning lights were on. Before anyone says it, I've already started looking for a better code reader for the future.

My question of the day, if anyone can answer it without me having any codes to offer up, is would it be a safe bet that this could be the S1 and S2 solenoids and/or the PNP switch? I would gladly spend the money for all three if it will finally get this car to a point that I can rely on it. I need to get the 850 back on the road ASAP as it was supposed to be taking the burden of commuting off my beloved MINI, which is currently overdue for some 100K maintenance of it's own. Last thing i need is for her to start getting cranky too! :(
---
Robyn
'96 850 Platinum Edition wagon - "Loki" - SOLD (and then totaled a few weeks later :( )
'73 Volvo 1800ES

fiore67
Posts: 116
Joined: 14 April 2007
Year and Model: 93 850. 95 850
Location: Upstate New York

Post by fiore67 »

what codes did you pull ?

BigRed
Posts: 203
Joined: 18 April 2010
Year and Model: V70R 1998
Location: Pittsburgh

Post by BigRed »

Is their an Adance or AutoZone nearby you coul borrow a reader from?

I've done solenoid job on '96 so can offer what I learned if that is the case.

Sent from my BlackBerry 8530 using Tapatalk

1800ES
Posts: 58
Joined: 27 February 2012
Year and Model: '73 1800ES
Location: Plainsboro, NJ

Post by 1800ES »

We're going to hook it up to the VAG-COM tomorrow. While it's a tool for VW's we've used it successfully in the past to just pull OBDII codes from other cars as well.

I also just sent a payment for a code reader that Matty Moo had posted for sale in the classified so I'll be able to keep that in the car with me in the future.
---
Robyn
'96 850 Platinum Edition wagon - "Loki" - SOLD (and then totaled a few weeks later :( )
'73 Volvo 1800ES

1800ES
Posts: 58
Joined: 27 February 2012
Year and Model: '73 1800ES
Location: Plainsboro, NJ

Post by 1800ES »

Update...

We tried the VAG-COM yesterday but could not get it to connect at all. Did some reading and it seems our version is woefully out of date and we may need to also upgrade the cable in order to update to the latest software. This is a whole separate little project now.

In any case, today the code reader I bought from MattyMoo arrived, so I plugged it in. Finally, I got some kind of code to at least start working with. P0734 came up - Gear 4 ratio incorrect. That really scared me until I did some reading on here and discovered that it's typically related to the PNP switch. I followed the suggestion to try rowing through the gears about 20 times and sure enough, when I fired the car up, and went for a short drive, the car was back to shifting normally again, although the whining noise is still there.

My happiness was short-lived though, when about 3 miles into my little drive, the flashing arrow/check engine light returned again and I was back in limp mode. I pulled over, turned off the car, rowed through the gears again, and I almost made it back home before it was back in limp mode. Sigh...

I've found the write up for removing and reinstalling the PNP switch, but can anyone tell me roughly how long this takes to do, bearing in mind that I have a brand new switch waiting to go in, and will not be trying to clean the old one? This weekend is shot for me because of Easter and I'm wondering if this is something I can get through in an evening after work.
---
Robyn
'96 850 Platinum Edition wagon - "Loki" - SOLD (and then totaled a few weeks later :( )
'73 Volvo 1800ES

JordanW
Posts: 63
Joined: 25 August 2010
Year and Model: 96 850R
Location: Central ILLINOIS

Post by JordanW »

For me the hardest part has been seperating the PNP harness from the rest of the transmission harness connector. I think you'd be able to get in done in about 2 hours or so.

Again I highly recommend VOL-FCR to get the DTC from the TCU.

There is some good info here too: http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/tech/servic ... gnosis.pdf
96 850R = ARD Green m4.4, rip, Kilen's, C70vert subframe, S60R exhaust manifold, NA TB with 960 plate, SNAAB J pipe, MSD coil.

dcarlson12
Posts: 514
Joined: 2 July 2008
Year and Model: 1997 850 T5
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada
Been thanked: 2 times

Post by dcarlson12 »

Is the PNP the same as the gear position sensor?

1800ES
Posts: 58
Joined: 27 February 2012
Year and Model: '73 1800ES
Location: Plainsboro, NJ

Post by 1800ES »

JordanW wrote:For me the hardest part has been seperating the PNP harness from the rest of the transmission harness connector. I think you'd be able to get in done in about 2 hours or so.

Again I highly recommend VOL-FCR to get the DTC from the TCU.
Hmm... 2 hours seems doable this evening, even if it takes an extra hour or so because of a stubborn connector. Thanks.

I am definitely still looking into getting VOL-FCR. It took quite a bit of digging to get any useful info about. The reason I still tried to go through VAG-COM is because there is a version of VOL-FCR that apparently runs using the VAG-COM cable, which would save me having to buy a second cable. Of course, it looks like we need a new cable for the VAG-COM anyway now, but at least with one cable upgrade we should be able to run both systems.
dcarlson12 wrote:Is the PNP the same as the gear position sensor?
According to the article JordanW posted a link to, I believe so.
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Robyn
'96 850 Platinum Edition wagon - "Loki" - SOLD (and then totaled a few weeks later :( )
'73 Volvo 1800ES

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rspi
Posts: 7303
Joined: 5 November 2011
Year and Model: 850 T-5R Wagon
Location: Cincinnati OH
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Post by rspi »

I've done the PNP a couple of times on a NA car and it took about 1-1/2 hours. 15 minutes of that trying to get the switch apart. Ugr!!! Doubt that will effect the turbo whine sound though. Maybe you can check over your vacuum lines one day soon.

What caused the car to die on you on the way home from purchase?

I hope to get my wife a 850 Platinum one day.
'95 855 T-5R M, Panther - 22/28 mpg, 546,000 miles
'95 955 T-5R Yellow Wagon, Lemonade, 180,000 miles
--------------------
Volvo's of past: '87 740 GLE, '79 262C Bertone, '78 264, 960's, '98 S70 GLT, '95 850 T-5R YellowVolvo Repair Videos

1800ES
Posts: 58
Joined: 27 February 2012
Year and Model: '73 1800ES
Location: Plainsboro, NJ

Post by 1800ES »

I know the PNP won't eliminate the whining but it will resolve the problem error code P0734 (or at least I hope so). One step at a time. At least the car is drivable with the whine. It's much less so in limp mode.

The car died on the way home the day I bought it when the upper hose connection at the radiator broke off and I lost all the coolant. There was no way to reconnect the hose at the point so it had to be towed.
---
Robyn
'96 850 Platinum Edition wagon - "Loki" - SOLD (and then totaled a few weeks later :( )
'73 Volvo 1800ES

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