Timing on 99 S70 non-Turbo

Johnny K · Post by **Johnny K** » 02 May 2012, 19:51

I have a 99 S70 Non-Turbo which has 250K miles on it. When I went out to start it this past Tuesday I heard a clanking sound when I turned the key so I immediately stopped. I attempted a second time to start the car but it would not start. It is turning over and I never heard the clanking sound again. After checking all systems I did a compression test and came up with 25 in four and 50 psi in the fifth cylinder. This lead me to believe I had issues with my piston, valves or possibly cams. As I began pulling things apart to pull open the cam cover (sorry not sure what its really called) I discovered that based on what I'm reading the hash marks on the cam gears and the crank gears are NOT lining up, in other words I believe the timing is off. The belt has 29,000 miles on it and looks to be in excellent condition. Anyone have this happen to them or and idea how it can happen? Second question is assuming the timing is off how do I get it timed properly to test for compression.

Thanks all I really appreciate the help

Post by **rspi** » 02 May 2012, 21:06

So what you are saying is that you tried to align the cams to get it at DTC and the marks are not aligning? If that is the case it sounds like the car jumped timing somehow. Please post a picture.

When the timing belt was replaced, what other items was replaced with the belt? Idler? Tensioner? There is a chance that the tensioner failed and caused slack in the belt and allowed it to jump timing. Does the belt feel tight?

Johnny K · Post by **Johnny K** » 03 May 2012, 04:51

Yes I tried to align the cams to get it to DTC but with the belt still on. I slowly turned the crank clockwise and as many times as I turn it I just cannot seem to get the three to line up at the same time. By this I mean that the hash mark on the cams & crank will not line up with the upper belt cover at the same time with each other. I'll check my records to see if the tensioner was replaced when the belt was. Belt does not feel bad. I'll take a picture tonight when I get back home. If I did jump timing how would I go about resetting it and how do I know if I have VVT?

Thanks

Post by **rspi** » 03 May 2012, 08:16

I think all of these I5's have VVT. How far is it off? One tooth? Post the pic and I'm sure someone can help you. Also, it's easier to turn the crank when you remove the plugs.

Again, what other items were replaced with the belt? Did the belt feel TIGHT?

Post by **jblackburn** » 03 May 2012, 08:29

If your cams look like this, you do NOT have VVT. IIRC, 99 was a split year. Most non-turbo engines did not have VVT in the 1999 year.

The mechanical tensioners are stupid and sometimes fail early - this was almost never the case with the old hydraulic tensioners. The "advantage" was they'd be able to keep the belt on a few thousand miles more. Replace them at every TB change.

Johnny K wrote:I slowly turned the crank clockwise and as many times as I turn it I just cannot seem to get the three to line up at the same time.

How far are they off? If it's 2-3 teeth, the belt slipped and the crankshaft mark needs to be moved back to line up on its own. Then align the camshafts.

Johnny K · Post by **Johnny K** » 04 May 2012, 05:09

Here is a picture of the cams. I placed small strips of blue masking tape on the hash marks for you to see a bit easier. It certainly seems as though the timing is off.....and not just a few teeth. I was thinking of changing the belt/tensioner and then rechecking the compression.
My questions: is there a way to check the condition of the valves/pistons with out pulling the cam cover/head off? and how do I go about correcting the timing properly at this point?

thanks everyone I really appreciate the help, this is my college daughters car and it sure would help if I could get a few more years out of it.

Johnny K · Post by **Johnny K** » 04 May 2012, 05:11

Lets try this again

Post by **rmmagow** » 04 May 2012, 07:47

Are you positive the crank is positioned correctly, the gear at the bottom? This looks pretty bad regardless. I'd venture a guess that valves are damaged. Now, you said it clanked when you went to start, the clank was probably val eves hitting the pistons, but the car never started. There is a small chance that not enough damage was done and you might get fortunate. Try to get everything lined back up, get a new tensioner. You belt might be OK but a new one is cheap insurance. Once it's lined up correctly, slowly turn over the engine by hand to make sure all feels right. There are other more knowledgeable folks here that can tell you how to remove the valve cover to be sure the valve train is in time. Once that's done, either try to start the engine or run a compression test to see if any valves are definitely bent. No, you're golden and lucky, yes, duaghter might need a new car.

Post by **jblackburn** » 04 May 2012, 07:49

Ohhh...

That looks bad.

Something caused the belt to jump like that (probably the tensioner).

Only way to tell what's really broken is to take the belt off and line everything up. Then crank it over by hand. If you meet lots of resistance, you've got smashed valves (which I'm pretty sure with the timing being that much off, most of them have been smashed).

Post by **erikv11** » 04 May 2012, 08:00

That is not VVT timing. You asked how to go about setting the timing:

(1) Hand crank it like you have, with the belt on, until the crank is on the mark. Keep it there, at that position it is safe to move the cams around.
(2) Remove the belt and align the cams to the notches in the upper cover (visible in jablackburn's photo).
(3) Re-install the belt. Unfortunately you should use a new tensioner because starting it up with the old one looks like trouble. You can re-use the belt for this testing phase.
(4) Start it up, see if it runs. If it does, then check compression to know about valve damage.
(5) If the engine is not toast, replace the rest of the timing components.