White Smoke, No Coolant Leak, Losing Oil

Post by **dborgers** » 17 Oct 2012, 23:42

Hi there. I've read through all the threads I could find on white smoke form the exhaust pipe.

Here's my situation. Thanks in advance for your comments and ideas. I appreciate it a lot:

I just bought a Volvo S70 (non-turbo), lady driven, well maintained, a mountain of service records. She didn't let anything go. Regular oil changes, timing belt, maintenance, the works every time it was called for.

My wife was pulling out today and I saw a pretty good sized puff of white smoke coming out the tailpipe. She drove about 110 miles round trip. I checked the oil when she got back. Down a quart from yesterday, but the coolant was right at the line and the color looks normal. The color of the oil on the dipstick also looks normal. it isn't overheating at all. No unusual noises in the engine compartment. Running like a top.

Idling or driving down the road there's just a very small amount of white smoke coming out. Taking off is when the most white smoke comes out.

Wouldn't a blown head gasket mean the coolant level would be down? The smoke doesn't smell 'sweet' like coolant and the coolant and oil both look good in color. I'll get an oil change with high mileage oil. Anything I should add to that oil? Additive?

With my golden boy going through cancer and chemo an expensive head gasket repair would hurt pretty badly right about now. Rather than get snookered by some mechanic who might propose an unnecessary and expensive repair i thought I'd post and see what other things it might be, what I can test for, and which tests to get from Autozone/NAPA/Etc. I'd like to nail down the cause before I take it into a shop if possible.

Jono51 · Post by **Jono51** » 18 Oct 2012, 01:18

White smoke isn't necessarily a problem so long as it goes away once the engine's warm.

But that's a big drop in oil level. Sorry if I'm telling you how to suck eggs but were you comparing levels of oil and coolant with the engine at the same temperature? (preferably dead cold in both cases)

Also, have you checked for fumes from the dipstick tube with the engine running?

Post by **dborgers** » 18 Oct 2012, 01:36

were you comparing levels of oil and coolant with the engine at the same temperature? (preferably dead cold in both cases)

Yes, at the same temperature after the car had cooled down. I'll check the dipstick for fumes tomorrow and post what I discover. The oil and coolant colors are OK to my eye. BTW, she was leaving when the car was cold. I haven't looked yet when I know it's all warmed up. Also a reminder it isn't overheating at all. The dash temperature gauge is exactly in the right place like it is in my 850 wagon and doesn't ever rise above normal.

Thanks for the reply

Post by **jblackburn** » 18 Oct 2012, 07:25

These cars "smoke" (steam) a LOT in cool weather. That's completely normal.

The losing a qt of oil isn't, however. I think that car may be leaking it somewhere rather than burning that much oil - burning all that would mean huge clouds of blue smoke that lingers around.

Imagine that, a Volvo leaking oil...

I'd inspect the cam seals on both sides of the engine - TB side and cam sensor side.

Post by **dborgers** » 18 Oct 2012, 18:01

I had the coolant and oil changed today. The old coolant was a nice green color, and the oil color looked good too according to the guys who did it at Valvoline, where we've been getting oil changes for 15 years.

It still smokes. One thing I discovered going through the receipts the previous owner kept was that synthetic oil had been used a couple times. Perhaps they used synthetic the last oil change and cleaned things out so well the tiny internal leaks no longer have a buildup of SAE 10-30 oil residue. They did say the oil and transmission pan gaskets are both leaking slightly, but to wait now until I'm ready for another oil change, so the new oil isn't wasted.

When I hit the gas I can see it coming out pretty good. Oh, and on start up at this oil change/coolant change water came out of the muffler. Maybe like 5 or 6 tablespoons of water.

She has great receipts for all the major mechanical and regular maintenance like brakes, ABS module, etc etc. Receipts for just oil changes no, only on Firestone and Import Auto receipts where more extensive work was done and an oil change done at that time.

Any suggestions on the next things to check that could be causing that white smoke?

Thanks for your help

Post by **Ben850** » 18 Oct 2012, 19:23

They did say the oil and transmission pan gaskets are both leaking slightly, but to wait now until I'm ready for another oil change, so the new oil isn't wasted.

If they meant where the oil pan meets the transmission, (no trans pan per se) It is likely the rear main seal. Mine was leaking pretty badly until I did the PCV system. Do you know the history of the PCV on this car? If it is clogged, seals will start leaking all over, including the filler cap.

Post by **dborgers** » 18 Oct 2012, 22:48

If they meant where the oil pan meets the transmission, (no trans pan per se) It is likely the rear main seal. Mine was leaking pretty badly until I did the PCV system. Do you know the history of the PCV on this car? If it is clogged, seals will start leaking all over, including the filler cap.

There was a receipt from two years ago where the main seal was replaced (transmission). Is that the same thing? I'll check on the PCV. Don't remember a receipt for that, but there were so many and so many things done I'll have to check the receipts from the previous owner carefully.

Thanks Don850

Post by **Ben850** » 19 Oct 2012, 07:29

dborgers wrote:
If they meant where the oil pan meets the transmission, (no trans pan per se) It is likely the rear main seal. Mine was leaking pretty badly until I did the PCV system. Do you know the history of the PCV on this car? If it is clogged, seals will start leaking all over, including the filler cap.

There was a receipt from two years ago where the main seal was replaced (transmission). Is that the same thing? I'll check on the PCV. Don't remember a receipt for that, but there were so many and so many things done I'll have to check the receipts from the previous owner carefully.

Thanks Don850

No, the trans seal is different. The rear main seal is for the engine crankshaft, and will leak engine oil. There is a "weep hole" where either one of those fuids will come from if one of those two seals is bad. But if the crankcase pressure is extensive due to a clogged PCV system, it is likely engine oil coming from that weep hole due to the rear crankshaft seal.
If the mechanic that did the trans seal was paying attention, or cared enough, he should have changed the rear main seal while the trans was split from the engine. It's a $20. part with a $1,000 labor bill.
So once again, do you have any history of the PCV system being maintained? It is a less expensive repair than a rear main seal.
Good Luck.
P.S. Leaking valve seals can also account for loss of oil, and some smoke at startup and accelleration. This can also be lessened after relieving excessive crankcase pressure.

barrylay · Post by **barrylay** » 19 Oct 2012, 18:55

I would do what jblackburn said - check the cam shaft seals. I bought my 850 with a massive oil leak, told it was most likely something on the front side of the engine, a 5 hour job, and it turned out to be just the cam shaft seal on the firewall side of the engine. It took 45 minutes to fix and $12 for two seals. Two years later the seal on the other side started leaking and luckily I still had the other seal - should have done them both to begin with. both seals were practically popped out and the oil was just able to pass right by them.
just have a look for oil on the outside and below the cam cover to the right of the distributor and behind the distributor.
Regards
Barry

Post by **dborgers** » 19 Oct 2012, 19:50

barrylay wrote:I would do what jblackburn said - check the cam shaft seals. I bought my 850 with a massive oil leak, told it was most likely something on the front side of the engine, a 5 hour job, and it turned out to be just the cam shaft seal on the firewall side of the engine. It took 45 minutes to fix and $12 for two seals. Two years later the seal on the other side started leaking and luckily I still had the other seal - should have done them both to begin with. both seals were practically popped out and the oil was just able to pass right by them.
just have a look for oil on the outside and below the cam cover to the right of the distributor and behind the distributor.
Regards
Barry

Thanks, Barry. I appreciate it.

I'll have that checked as well. I'm making a list of things for someone to check. Probably things I'll get done anyway (the cheaper ones for starters).

Would a leaky cam shaft seal explain white smoke coming out of the tailpipe? That's the oil half of this equation. Trying to find out what's causing it.