Major Engine Issues After Accident - Unrelated?

Post by **DWeisbrod** » 31 Mar 2013, 17:33

Okay, here's the story - and I'll try to keep it short. I hadn't done the PVC/Breather system - ever - and I thought it needed to be done - high idle RPM, 170,000 miles (!!) etc. But I'm cheap, so I decided to try and just clean everything out and put it all back together again without buying any new parts. So, on a nice warm Saturday in January (warm = above 30 degrees in upstate NY), I took the whole thing apart. The plastic tube was brittle, and broke when I twisted the flame trap off the TB, so I sawed it into two pieces, and found a flexible tube (thick walled, high pressure) and some gasket sealer, and patched the tube back together. I flushed out the whole thing with degreaser, washed everything, including the flame trap, and then put it all back together. It seemed fine for the next 4 days, but then on Wednesday of that same week I got rear-ended - moderately hard. No damage to the back, but a pretty big hit on the front bumper from hitting the car that was in front of me at the light.

So, fast forward about a week - I smell burning oil - and open the hood to investigate. The engine is pushing oil out of the oil cap in pretty good amounts - more with higher RPMs... which signifies blowby and all of that. However, the day that it started and got really bad, I noticed a big puddle of frothy, milk oil under the car, when I got home - like something exploded. Then, about 3 or 4 days later, I got a P0455 (EVAP leak - large) error code, but never had another puddle like that.

So, a week or two later, I took the whole thing apart again, and didn't notice any location where the oil could have come from as far as the PVC system is concerned. But I thought - let's give it one more try, and put it back together again with the old tubing and everything.

Now, over 2 months later, I just checked my oil, and now the oil on the dipstick is frothy and milky as well. And oil is still coming out of the oil cap. And the P0455 error code came back, too.

So, with all that info, here's the question - could a fault in the PVC system cause oil to come out of the fill cap? Could it cause a P0455 (EVAP leak - large) code? Or did the accident cause another problem, like popping off a hose on the rollover valve or the charcoal canister? Or do I have several things going on at once?

I know that this is a lot to diagnose virtually, but any opinions and ideas of things to check would be welcome, especially beyond the typical stuff.

And I guess, my biggest question is whether or not it sounds like my PVC system could be causing this!

Thanks for your help!!!

jacobharding · Post by **jacobharding** » 31 Mar 2013, 19:33

Frothy "milky" oil signifies water/coolant in the oil. That along with the high crankcase pressure would tell me that the head gasket is shot or you have a crack in the head or block. Accident related? probably not, but who knows. What does the exhaust look and smell like? Were any of these problems present before the first PCV cleaning?
If the pcv is clogged then the crankcase is going to depressurize somewhere. Normally it will through the dipstick tube but if the cap is not sealing well then it will there too. Shouldn't be massive amounts of oil escaping though.
One things for sure - I would certainly not be driving it at all unless you are wanting to replace the engine anyway.

Post by **abscate** » 31 Mar 2013, 19:41

My gut reaction is that you have two different things going on...

Definitely hose could have broken in the evap system leading to P0455 code

But water in the oil is far more serious and costly, this needs to be evaluated because it could drive a fix or junk decision on the car

jacobharding · Post by **jacobharding** » 31 Mar 2013, 19:46

One other thought I had was if the car was hit hard in front the radiator could have been damaged and since the oil cooler is integrated then an internal leak could be the cause of the water in the oil. Also I am thinking that the high pressure from the coolant system would be bleeding into the crankcase via this leak. What does it look like inside the cam cover when you remove the filler cap? Clean oil or the frothy mixture?
Also is oil present in the coolant?

Post by **abscate** » 31 Mar 2013, 19:51

Jacob has nailed it with that last post...well done!

Take the rest of the day off.

Post by **erikv11** » 31 Mar 2013, 20:11

Negative on the oil cooler explanation, the OP drives an NA where the radiator doesn't have one.

How much froth/moisture are we talking, a lot more than the typical condensation that occurs on the dipstick?

Post by **jblackburn** » 31 Mar 2013, 22:28

If the car isn't driven on the highway a whole lot, ignore the stuff on the dipstick. That can absolutely be caused by a PCV system.

If you're not losing coolant or don't notice anything floating on the coolant in the expansion tank, forget any head gasket problems.

Are you 100% sure that lower oil trap port is clear, including around the corner in the oil pan? Is there smoke up the dipstick, even if the cap is blowing out oil? If no, replace the seal on the cap.

If no, maybe the long bendy hose in the PCV system is broken or clogged. They tend to get VERY brittle over the years - mine snapped into many pieces.

Post by **jblackburn** » 31 Mar 2013, 22:29

P0455 - I believe most 850's have the charcoal canister in the front fender. Look for a hose knocked off or a damaged canister..

Post by **DWeisbrod** » 01 Apr 2013, 06:38

Thanks for all the suggestions! And to clarify:

I don't have oil in the coolant, and I'm not losing coolant.

I checked the ports on the front of the block that plug into the oil separator. Everything looks fine.

The amount of froth on the dipstick isn't humongous, but more than I've ever seen, even in our early spring time when the temp is up and down and there's a lot of condensation happening everywhere.

I'm guessing that from everything I'm getting here, I just need to stop being cheap, buy the new breather repair kit, fix it right this time, and see if that makes a difference. As well as check out all the other normal EVAP stuff, like the charcoal cannister.

So one question remains - would it be possible for something in the PVC or EVAP to be messed up so bad that it's pushing oil out of the top? Or is that only a ring issue?

Post by **jblackburn** » 01 Apr 2013, 06:51

Yeah, the PCV will do that on these cars.

One thing that may keep you from doing it all again: take the top hose to the oil trap off (from the valve cover) and pour some seafoam down the tube. Please change your oil soon after.

If there's any crud in the entrance to the oil pan, hopefully that will clean it out.