2002 S80 Timing belt crankshaft alignment confusion

djackson47 · Post by **djackson47** » 04 Oct 2013, 14:24

Just got through installing a new timing belt on my 2002 S80 T6. It started ok, but was anemic, plus check engine light came on. Diagnostic says the cam and crank are out of position. I'm not real surprised. Everything I could see online and in alldatadiy said to look for a mark in between the cogs on the crankshaft pulley. Well, there's no mark there, but there is a raised ridge visible on the outside of the crankshaft pulley. Also the mark on the block was not like I was expecting. What I found was a raised ridge marking which looks like a wide shaped U with the left "leg" longer than the right hand "leg". I appeared to me before I took the old belt off that the raised ridge (with the other ones on the exhaust and intake lined up with their corresponding mark on the upper timing cover) was just inside the left "leg", so that's where I made sure it was lined up when I put the new belt on. Obviously that is close, but wrong. Before I dig back into this thing, does anyone know how this configuration on the crankshaft is supposed to be lined up? I am presuming the crankshaft needs to be lined up further right toward the center of the U? Many thanks for any help.

Post by **Oly_850** » 26 Oct 2013, 23:26

Hi, the crankshaft needs to be aligned with a mark on the crank pulley. This mark cannot be seen without removing the vibration damper and serpentine belt pulley. Looking down on it from above, the line on the pulley should line up with the left edge of the aluminum flange on the engine.

Post by **boosted5cyl** » 29 Oct 2013, 14:18

Are you getting a P0014?

You can also use an alignment hole behind the starter motor. Remove the starter motor, remove the plug (torx) and place a socket extension in the hole. Rotate the motor CCW by hand until it hits the stop. This is your mark for cam alignment. It's important to note that this mark is NOT TDC. Same applies for the mark on the front pulley, it is not TDC.

The kicker with these models is that lining the cams and crank isnt enough to nail the timing and clear the code, you also need to make sure the VVT hub is set correctly. Search the board for more info on that if you find all your visual marks line up on the cams and crank. If the VVT is off it wont do damage, but it will throw a code and possibly run right.

Other things that can cause a P0014 are...
Dirty or failing VVT solenoid
Incorrect oil viscosity

SimLyons · Post by **SimLyons** » 02 Nov 2013, 20:11

I am having issues with the timing marks, too. When I removed the belts I was sure they were in the "marked" position. I "tried" to not move anything while reassembling with new idlers, water pump, etc.

Well, it looked off a notch on the cams and the crank was off about 3 notches *(CCW). I attempted to reinstall the timing belt and thought all was well. I started the car and it sounded like a bad thrasher. I shut it down and looked again for my marks (I used white-out to highlight them). They were out of alignment again.

Questions:

1. Are there any photos or drawings showing the mark on the crank? I think I'm not on the correct one (I used the mark described above, a raised "welt" or ridge on the pulley in front of the crank hub.

2. Same with corresponding mark on the block. I didn't see a clear "mark". With the belt on it's very difficult to seem much down there, and with it off I dared not move anything, relying on the "white-out" marks I left before disassembling.

3. The engine was loud, but not like I would expect with valves hitting pistons. Possibly with valves seriously out of time. Where do I begin to get it all back into alignment? I have removed the cover, accessory drive belt, dampener and have access to everything.

I believe I read here that the best way is to crank (by hand) the engine around 2 times, CW, and then back up CCW 90 degrees. That should put the CCVs back into the right position, but the marks will be off. Is that right?

Thanks for any and all help!!

Post by **boosted5cyl** » 04 Nov 2013, 11:17

Just use the method pointed out above with the hole behind the starter. There is a very big notch on the crank pulley, but you will need to remove dampener to see it.

If its only 3 or so teeth out you should be fine.

SimLyons · Post by **SimLyons** » 04 Nov 2013, 16:21

I wenk back and took off everything. Both belts, dampener, etc. It looks like some piece of steel got in when I stated it up and got chewed to pieces. The pulleys, tensioner, idler are all OK. I can't find any pieces of anything except for tiny bits. The belts are both fine. I noticed the crank pulley had jumped forward 2 notches (or actually one and a half). When I line everythng up again with the marks I made on original removal (so I could easily reinstall) the exhaust cam is VERY hard to turn. Intake cam is easy.

Pulled all plugs and they were good EXCEPT number 6. A fair pooling of oil that came up to the top of the spark plug. I sucked it all out and cleaned it up, checked the plugs for damages....no problem.

I'm putting it back together but I worry about the E Cam. If I can't rotate the engine by hand with the belt on, I think I'm looking at pulling the head. Any suggestions?

Sim

Post by **boosted5cyl** » 04 Nov 2013, 18:12

Its not unusual for either of the cams to be difficult to turn by hand, depending on what stage of the lobes they are it. If it was only two teeth out I wouldn't worry about anything being bent. Yes its an interference engine, but two teeth is generally not enough to make a mess unless you rev the beejeepers out of it.

Check over everything, check it again, put it all back together and you should be fine.

SimLyons · Post by **SimLyons** » 04 Nov 2013, 19:49

Got it cleaned up and back together. Well, OK, only to the Timing belt phase. Both cams are right on the mark but the crank is now advanced 2 cogs. I'll pull it off and reinstall tomorrow.

I double checked and it was relatively easy to do 2 360s (CW) and then back CCW 90. Just have to back up the crank a tad.

Post by **boosted5cyl** » 05 Nov 2013, 08:59

If you use the stop hole by the starter that will make it more difficult for the crank to move out of place.

SimLyons · Post by **SimLyons** » 17 Nov 2013, 16:32

Thanks for the info everyone. I was on my final attempt with getting the belt on with all pulleys lined correctly and then I was going to give up and pull the manifold and starter to do the suggested "stop in the flywheel", but as it turned out everything was perfect after releasing the tenioner. The car started and sounded like a nice sewing machine. Everything is perfect in all speed ranges!