1993 240 Oil Leak Question

SmokinJazz · Post by **SmokinJazz** » 27 Apr 2014, 19:12

Is it possible for the rear main to leak a bit and have the oil get thrown (due to the spinning) up and through the area where the bell housing connects to the engine? This is the theory of the volvo specific shop I've gone to for issues beyond my ability. This just doesn't sound too feasible to me. There isn't that much dripping at the bottom of the bell housing. So I wanted to validate this theory - has anyone ever seen this happen before? I don't want to deal with fighting a $600 bill to replace the rear main only to find I still have a wet engine because the rear main wasn't the issue. The shop has been around for over 30 years and they are truly experts, but this theory just doesn't seem logically.

Here are the things I've done so far: Only the driver side of the engine is wet. I cleaned the engine well and eventually saw oil form around the trap. Replaced the oil trap - definitely an issue, it was older and had no O-ring at all in place. After the test drive, I noticed no oil is coming out from around the oil trap at all - yeah! However, the driver side is wet again (but not as much), When feeling around, I noticed the lower heater hose was also wet and kind of a mess. So today, I replaced the two heater hoses and made quite sure they are not leaking. After the test drive, the driver side is wet again. When wiping the engine with a clean paper towel, it is definitely brown and oily - after the heater hose job today, I most certainly know the color and smell of coolant

. I still find some small drippings under the car now a few hours after my test drive. I placed a plastic sheet under the car so the drippings wouldn't soak into anything so I can analyze it - just a few drips - looks brown and feels oily - didn't smell like coolant, but there was one edge that looked kind of iridescent (like there could be coolant mixed into it). The heater hoses appear dry and they don't look to be leaking.

So is it possible for the oil to be flung around the spindle at the rear main and be thrown up to the point where it leaks through the seam between the bell housing and the engine block? Or does anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks,
Rob

lummert · Post by **lummert** » 27 Apr 2014, 19:44

Something to check out:

Rear camshaft seal;

http://www.ipdusa.com/products/9052/120 ... shaft-seal

And a retainer to keep the seal in place:

http://www.ipdusa.com/products/5561/103 ... l-retainer

SmokinJazz · Post by **SmokinJazz** » 27 Apr 2014, 20:41

I forgot to mention that the cam plug was replaced about 6 months ago by the shop and the back of the valve cover where that is located is absolutely dry. That was the first thing I checked before I found the oil trap was leaking. I do want to pick up one of those retainer plates - that just makes good sense, I'm not sure why Volvo didn't put one of those on originally.

Post by **rgk** » 29 Apr 2014, 06:14

Have you checked for leaks all the way around your head? Have you looked at the underside of your oil cap for evidence of coolant (milky froth)? Have you drained your oil and checked for evidence of coolant?

Post by **mtd240** » 29 Apr 2014, 11:24

SmokinJazz wrote:I do want to pick up one of those retainer plates - that just makes good sense, I'm not sure why Volvo didn't put one of those on originally.

B230F engines in 7 and 9 series have the distributor mounted there rather than on the block like our 240s.

I don't know if this was the engineers' original intent - but that plug is the "weak link" for a poorly maintained PCV system. It will pop out before a seal does, saving the money/time required to replace a seal (especially a rear main). For those of us who run synthetic oil and regularly check the PCV system, it doesn't really serve a useful purpose.

SmokinJazz · Post by **SmokinJazz** » 30 Apr 2014, 20:25

So it would be better to not put the retainer plate on so if something blows, it would be the plug. But since I'll be servicing the flame trap, it is not going to be an issue anyway.

There is no milky froth at the oil cap and exhaust is clear - no smoke at all, so I don't think there is any coolant in the oil, what I saw was probably co-mingling under the car. When I changed the heater hoses, the lower one still had a decent amount flow out all over the place and I didn't clean up under the car - so I feel pretty safe that the oil isn't compromised with coolant.

I got a black light and they had put in dye a while ago, but I did have an oil change a month back, and also cleaned my engine a bit - but I could see a nice glow at the rear of the head. I was hoping for an easy fix like the valve cover gasket - but that isn't the problem. It seems like a major job to replace the head gasket - pretty much everything would need to come off - right? I doubt I could swing that type of a job. Is that as big of a job as I think it is?

SmokinJazz · Post by **SmokinJazz** » 01 May 2014, 08:21

I searched out symptoms for a blown head gasket and I don't see any of them in my car. Plus, I am watching a youtube series of videos from a guy named ethivierge (there are 26 videos in total) - this is an intense job where many things could go wrong. I would love the experience of tearing this apart, but would need the expertise to put it all back together again! Probably a job for a pro. That is if it needs to be done at all.

Since I'm not noticing any symptoms, I don't think I'll do anything yet. I have not evaluated the only diagnostics checker yet - that will be interesting (and possibly scary) to see what it says about the system. I think I need to drive it a while first - doesn't that reset when the battery is disconnected?

Thanks for the all the input.

Post by **mtd240** » 01 May 2014, 08:26

SmokinJazz wrote:So it would be better to not put the retainer plate on so if something blows, it would be the plug. But since I'll be servicing the flame trap, it is not going to be an issue anyway.

Right.

SmokinJazz wrote:There is no milky froth at the oil cap and exhaust is clear - no smoke at all, so I don't think there is any coolant in the oil, what I saw was probably co-mingling under the car. When I changed the heater hoses, the lower one still had a decent amount flow out all over the place and I didn't clean up under the car - so I feel pretty safe that the oil isn't compromised with coolant.

I got a black light and they had put in dye a while ago, but I did have an oil change a month back, and also cleaned my engine a bit - but I could see a nice glow at the rear of the head. I was hoping for an easy fix like the valve cover gasket - but that isn't the problem. It seems like a major job to replace the head gasket - pretty much everything would need to come off - right? I doubt I could swing that type of a job. Is that as big of a job as I think it is?

My headgasket seeped and then dumped coolant into cylinder #1, so I replaced it. It still seeps a little at the back of the head, probably because I didn't torque the head bolts perfectly

.

A headgasket takes ~3-4 hours of your time (at a leisurely pace), not including waiting for the machine shop. It really isn't hard, especially if you have a Bentley Manual to walk you through it. Remove intake/exhaust manifolds, unplug sensors, remove timing belt, valve cover, camshaft, then unbolt the head. Clean the block surface, inspect the head (take to machine shop if necessary), and put it all back together.

If I were you - I would start using high mileage oil (Mobil 1 high mileage, or Valvoline MAXlife high mileage, or whatever) and keep driving. Keep an eye on the temperature gauge, and start saving up money for the headgasket kit. There is a lot of other stuff I did "while I was in there", too.

SmokinJazz · Post by **SmokinJazz** » 02 May 2014, 07:13

So the machining of the head isn't an automatic necessity? I don't even know where I would have that done.

Regarding the temp gauge - an interesting story: I met a guy at a pick-n-pull who highly recommended switching the spark plugs back to the OEM Bosch WR7DC (I had NKG's in there and there were NKG's in there when I changed them) - he said the NKG's run too hot. When I first got the car and drove it into the winter I noticed the temp gauge was at about 1/4 at most and I got no heat really - That was a bad thermostat - I replaced that and with the NKG's the temp registered right at the center dot when hot, sometimes it would increase above that. When I put the Bosch in, the temp gauge is now at about 1/3rd mark - definitely cooler and the sound is more mellow. So I've been watching the temps and will continue to monitor that.

lummert · Post by **lummert** » 02 May 2014, 07:28

NGK does make spark plugs in different heat ranges.