2000 V70R cold start question

[scot850]

Like to test the great brains out there!

Somewhat strange problem (or normal where my cars are concerned!).

When my car is cold, I don't seem to get a noticeable 'choke' when the car starts, and what little there is doesn't stay for long. This makes if very 'exciting' to pull out into busy traffic as the engine just bogs down. It is better warm, but not 100%. Any thoughts or suggestions for things to check (beyond sell this albatross!!). Is this just a symptom of a 19T turbo taking time to spool up? Don't have issue with other Volvo turbos (V70XC, T5 and XC70).

Having spent well into 5 figures on this car, it continues to find ways to irritate me, but like my cars to be on the button, even when possibly selling in the future.

Things that have been replaced recently:

1) IPD tcv and all pipes
2) spark-plugs
3) Timing belt
4) Turbo pressure sensor on inlet to throttle body
5) Has Xemodex modified throttle body. Could it be an issue with this?
6) Complete PCV system and pipes, with PTC cleaned.

Oh, and car is running IPD HD coils, has standard 19T turbo, KN filter (6k km), has Rica software. Car has about 167,000 miles on it, and no codes showing.

Thanks,

Neil.

[scot850]

No takers on this one? Let's try it another way. When starting from cold, how does then engine richen the mixture to make the engine run rich like an old fashion choke? I'm assuming there will be a temp sensor somewhere measuring engine temp to feed a signal to the engine management system to tell it to through in more fuel, when cold? If so, how to find and check?

Thanks,

Neil.

[abscate]

we are quick, but not instantaneous.

Search forum for ECT temperature curve to find threads on the engine coolant temperature sensor. It sounds like that is your problem.

[JDS60R]

Neil,
Lots to go wrong here. I am not a fan of the IPD coils (reported failures) and have no experience with the RICA tune.
My first concerns would be.
1. Dirty/sticking throttle body,
2. Unmetered air leaking in after the MAF. (Vacuum leaks)
3. Old fuel filter
4. Engine temp sensor inaccurate ( check by OBD)

There would be other concerns like low fuel pressure (old filter, pressure regulator) and plugs at 30K miles or older in service but I am going to assume you checked those already.

Lets put it on an OBD scanner and see what the fuel trims, engine temp and reported fuel pressure is as well. I am expecting somewhat high short and long term trims.

High idle should come on immediately and run for 15 seconds or so depending on temp.

There is also the silly stuff like loose spark plugs. I wish I had it in front of me. You should be able to sort this out with a scanner pretty quickly.

[scot850]

Thanks JDS60R!

Sorry for being impatient, but don't have a lot of time before heading out of country for a couple of weeks.

This will now have to wait for my return, but you made a couple of excellent suggestions, the most important being the fuel filter. I have a huge chunk of repair orders and parts receipts, but having gone through them back over 100,000km, can't see one for the fuel filter. Loads and loads for other stuff, but not that that I can see.

I am curious about the Xemodex ETM, as a 'contactless' ETM, it should be fairly reliable and it only installed less than 25,000 miles ago having been rebuilt. I have run Seafoam through the fuel system a couple of times, but will re-check it when I replace the plastic pipe to it that has a broken tab for the pressure sensor (zip-tied in place, but has a good seal).

Just replaced the plugs with OE, gapped to 0.028" (I know some folks like 0.026" on turbos), and these were torqued in using thread lube which I've used for years with no issues. Problem was there before this was done and still there now.

Hear you on the IPD coils. These were fitted about 25,000 miles ago (4 years) by a previous owner that fitted a bunch of IPD stuff. When I had the plugs out I gave them a good clean, and could see no cracks, but worth a check, but no codes have been thrown.

I'll take the car back to the dealer and have them change the fuel filter, and check the fuel pressure before and afterwards to see if there is any change. Funnily enough, one of the older mechanics I have a lot of respect for, took the car for a run and mentioned the fuel pressure may need checked.

As for the water temp sender, I'm assuming you mean the one at the thermostat housing. This was changed about 15,000 miles ago, and I changed it again about 18 months and 3,500 miles ago with and OE part as it read a little under half way that all my other normally read at. The new sensor is the same, and I also replaced the thermostat with the correct rated one, and that made no difference.

I know you said to use an OBD checker, but I only have a basic one that reads engine codes. No codes are showing, and no warning lights. Again, I'll ask the dealer to check.

As always, I will say, that I use the dealer as locally, we don't have any good shops that know about Volvos. I have a good relationship with the dealer and although we have occasional disagreements on how repairs should be done (i.e. right first time), they come through in the end. Last time in they replaced the top and LH engine mounts for me FOC! I'm a great believer in working with the dealer and it gets more latitude and they tend to go out of their way more often than they do with a regular whiney customer. Yes we should all be treated well, but treat folks as you wish to be treated and see the results. So ends the sermon!!!

Many thanks for your always helpful advice, and when I eventually get more info in a few weeks I'll let you know how I get on, or if I need more directions.....!

Regards,

Neil.

[scot850]

Well I'm sorry it took so long to get back on this subject, but it also took a long time to get a slot at the dealer in winter tire fitting season!

1) Fuel filter/pressure - The trusted Volvo mechanic I asked to work on the car did a pre and post fuel filter pressure check. There was no change. M y concern is that elsewhere I read that the fuel pressure is (or should be) around 43 psi. They recorded 4 bar which is around 58 psi if I am correct. Isn't that too high?? Car starts and runs ok, although I haven't noticed any change in the cold start.

2) Also asked for the turbo boost pressure to be checked. They didn't have enough time to take the car for an extended run with computer attached, so they could check for boost under load (i.e. up gradients). What the recorded also seems to be weird. The boost was recorded as 990 kPa at idle and 1500 kPa at full throttle. Again, the scale seems out as 990 kPa = 143 psi at idle. If they said 14 psi I could have understood this. 1500 kPa at full boost = 218 psi. Again if this was 21.8 psi I could understand it, but that seems high as Rica said the car should boost around 18 psi ( Although I have heard others say it runs at up to 21 psi).
So short of the full load tests being completed, all would appear ok?

3) Had all other systems checked for issues, and only one showing is the cabin temp unit in the dash. I knew it was possibly faulty as I swapped it with a car I sold as that one had gone bad. I'll swap that with one of the 2 spares I have.

Otherwise car got a clean bill of health, with no (current) oil leaks.

Just need to complete a bunch of small issues and then my pride and joy will have to go (car is taking up space and only 220km since August).

Neil.

[precopster]

An Android device (phone, tablet or used tablet going cheap can make an excellent scanner while using the Torque application.

Look into this option as you can set up multiple live parameters as guages or dials on the Torque dashboard including boost.

If the fuel pressure reading the dealer read is accurate you may have an issue with the FPR. Do you have a history on the fuel pump? A higher rated pump such as a Walbro may have been substituted. These generally have a much higher flow rate such as 255L/hr as opposed to Volvo V70 2000 120L/hr.
This can lead to running rich and having idle issues.

As JDSR mentioned viewing fuel trims may be essential to tracking this one down.

[abscate]

No FPR on an ME7 Volvo, I think?

I would look off fuel for your problem. Fuel pressure looks ok, and if your plugs aren't running black, I would look for a vacuum leak or ignition problem,

It does look like all the boost numbers have an extra factor of 10 in them.

[sit22II]

frozen intercooler?

[scot850]

Thanks guys for your help!

Mike, appreciate your suggestions on the Torque App. I have a spare tablet I can download this to, and will look at buying and ELM 327.
I had a look on E-bay and there appears to be a crap load for sale, but mostly 2 styles. One with flashy lights and a shorter one with none. The price variations for what often look like the same thing are huge for say around $10 to $30. Any thoughts or suggestions where to buy one that will work reliably? Looking at some other posts on the ELM 327's there appears to be a huge variation on reliability and quality.

I got a quick e-mail from the Service Foreman at Volvo, and he says their computer often misses out a decimal point and that my observations are probably correct for the Turbo boost, although still appear high to spec. I also asked him to clarify if the fuel pressure had been zeroed for atmospheric pressure. If not it will add 1 bar to the total. Removing that would bring the pressure down to 3 bar (43psi) which would be what I expect.

sit22II - What do you mean by frozen intercooler? I have had the intercooler freeze at low temps up here in Canada in the winter, but not when above freezing. So if you mean something else, please let me know. Thanks for your input.

abscate - Thanks for your help also. I had the dealer pull all fault codes and nothing was showing relevant to this issue like vacuum leaks. I have replaced all the PCV piping and TCV piping. I have not done anything with the emissions piping, but if there was a leak in that would there not be a code thrown? Is there other vacuum items I have missed or forgotten I should check?
I just replaced the plugs with Volvo OE, but the E3's that where in there for the last 70,000km where worn but had a nice light brown color to them.

Car did seem to run better coming back from the dealer, and the foreman did make a good point I hadn't considered. I don't drive my cars like a crazy person, so perhaps, when the ECU was wiped, the computer has adjusted to my driving style and so is not so aggressive as when purchased. Maybe I need to go out and drive like a real nutter?!

Thanks,

Neil.