2000 V70R - AWD Rear Sub-frame corrosion

mctee · Post by **mctee** » 01 Dec 2014, 15:43

My 1999 V70 XC with 354,500 kms has corrosion in same place but not nearly as much as yours - on driver's side but right side is clean.

Are the aluminium rear subframe cradles interchangeable?
I gather from the responses so far that V70R and V70 XC subframes are interchangeable?

If so, Surrey, BC Pick'nPull has a 2000 V70 XC in the yard with the rear subframe already dropped out and sitting on the gravel as someone has accessed the fuel tank.

Chapman's Volvo on Vancouver Island are great guys and I have used them several times but I have a hard time justifying their used part pricing mark up vs. Pick'nPull.
IE:
Foglights CDN$75 ea vs. CDN$14 ea
Used Nivomat's CDN$200 ea vs. CDN$10 ea
"Rear End Carrier Assembly" is quoted as CDN$95.99

Post by **scot850** » 02 Dec 2014, 12:08

Thanks for the note mctee! If I hadn't already got a good used one on its way from Chapmans, then it might be an option. Only issue is that I can't physically see the part to make sure I am getting a useable part. It is a 2000km round trip to Vancouver and so about $200 gas plus an overnight to view and collect. I trust Happy at Chapmans as he has never sent me anything that wasn't in excellent condition or almost new looking. Yes they are pricey, but when I need un-obtainable parts he has gone over and above for me (the main heater flap in an 93 850 I had). As a regular they did that for me, although they were initially reluctant as the cost of the part they could justify was way lower than the cost to retrieve the part. I do get quotes from them before buying stuff though.

Like you and all others if time allows and vehicles are available I go to auto wrecker yards like pick n'pull and in particular for the expensive trim parts, switches, etc. However, for bigger jobs I tend to be soft and don't have the time or equipment to pull stuff. Recently though there have been very few V70's or S70's locally in auto wreckers. More 850's. Again with out climate here, the cars are usually pretty beat by the time they get to the wreckers.

Interestingly, I got a call from the local dealer courtesy of Volvo Canada wanting more info. I have just sent videos of the issue to give more perspective. Of course, they now say that new parts are available again, but I know they are very expensive. At last look on US dealer on-line sites they were $1700 US but un-available. You can add probably 30-50% for Canada to that based on other parts. I tend to buy out the US from on-line US dealers like Tasca. Have to watch exchange rates and shipping costs though. An example here is rear rotors for this car are listed as N/A. Tasca found 6. They cost $65 US each. In Canada my VIP price is $138 CDN each if they were available. Also pads were about half price. Shipping made it less appealing as it was $120 US due to the weight of the vented rotors, but at least they were available OE.

I'll update if anything happens with Volvo looking at the issue. They asked if I could bring the car in, but I have it in bits, and of course my garage heater has gone on the fritz! If need be, the service manager has said he will come out to look.

Neil.

I appreciate all the support and time folks take to respond and help.

mctee · Post by **mctee** » 02 Dec 2014, 18:05

I 100% agree with your comments on Chapman's (good guys!) and I was in no way trying to flame them for making a buck. Everybody has to eat!
That said, you can save a boatload of $'s pulling your own parts (of course if the right inventory exists). The massive gap between dealer new parts pricing and P'nP BC pricing sure leaves room for used parts resellers to make some sizeable margin, tho!
I am continually amazed at pull-your-own parts pricing in BC and often wonder if auto recyclers are subsidized by Provincial government recycling / MM programs? I sure do not recall a-united selling used parts this cheap when my first few cars in the early '80's were kept running on a steady diet of used parts!

Anyway, your post has made me curious and I will definitely be checking this corroded area more closely on my car.

Post by **mecheng** » 03 Dec 2014, 06:45

When you spray with a pressure washer underneth are you removing the tar layer? Some of those pressure washers are pretty destructive.

Do you get your car sprayed or spray it yourself? I use a can of Rust Check spray on the fuel lines, brake lines and then the suspension components. So far, these cars have been great, especially compared to my old Honda and Acura. I had a brake line burst on my Acura; that was scary. Fixed the line then sold it; rust never sleeps!

Post by **scot850** » 03 Dec 2014, 12:17

Thanks for the notes mecheng! I do the washing. There is no tar covering this area in either front or rear inner fenders. If you look at the photos you will see all there is, is body colored painted steel inner wheel wells. I think part of the issue is there is a space between the aluminum sub-frame and the steel rail it bolts to. It is designed perfectly to catch any crap that the wheels throw its way. Also, as you can see, the paint at the front and rear main bolt areas has cracked and flaked off and allowed the area of steel to start to corrode. This is turn I think is why there is localised corrosion of the sub-frame in these 2 areas. The front edge of the sub-is less affected than the rear. Why one side is worse that the other, who knows? The other side is just starting to go crusty at the top edge of the flange at the same area.

My 'new' sub-frame gets here tomorrow so I will see if a frame from somewhere that uses little or no salt and has a much lower temp range (in Calgary we are at nearly 4000ft) we can see temperatures (with wind chill) from below -40C to up to +35C in summer which is pretty harsh on any materials.

I'll post photos of the part when it arrives.

Thanks again to all for your help and encouragement!

Neil.

Post by **scot850** » 23 Mar 2015, 19:51

Thought it was worth updating this thread. I spoke to dealer, and Volvo Canada/North America, and they claimed to 'never have seen this problem before' so basically ignored me. The service manager said it would be good it I took the failed item to them so they could send it to Volvo for further analysis (conspiracy theorist in me says to hide the evidence!!).

I have reached the point of getting the garage almost tidy enough to start work on the strip down in the next couple of days, but thought some of you may be interested in some of the pictures I took of AWD P80's in the last few weeks locally. This includes a 2000 V70R and 2 x V70XC (99 and 00).

Strangely the worst example by far, was the 2000 V70R which was bad on both sides, but much worse on the RH rear (opposite to my car, but same as my old 98 V70XC).

: 2000 V70R RH rear side

First car - 2000 V70R

: RH rear sub-frame with chunk missing

Rear sub-frame RH side. Notice chunk missing from side flange.

: Look at the top of the screen and you see a hole from underneath in sub-frame

Picture taken from underneath looking up at sub-frame. To top of the screen you can see a hole in the frame!!

: Looking down on sub-frame and you are looking through it!

Looking down on the frame and you can see right through it as it is missing!

: LH rear. If you look at the right side you can see the corrosion crater

LH side of 2000 V70R. Corrosion starting on opposite side.

: 99 V70XC LH side. Corrosion just starting

1999 V70XC. Strangely not quite as bad but evidence of frame corrosion along upper edge

: 2000 V70XC - LH side. Corrosion started under rusted frame

2000 V70 XC - Corrosion under where the rusted steel meets the frame on LH side. You can see a pocket forming in the aluminum.

: 2000 V70XC RH side corrosion at rear

Same car, with corrosion forming in mirror position on RH side

: 2000 V70XC RH front of frame.

Same 2000 V70XC looking at the front of the of RH side, you can see corrosion running down the side of frame where front bolt is.

Considering these are the only 3 AWD P80's in the yard at the time, what are the chances all 3 would show a corrosion issue (to greater or lesser extent) if there is not an issue either with the design or some local environmental issue (like the de-icing agent used which is liquid sodium/rust).

Neil.

Post by **mecheng** » 24 Mar 2015, 10:47

Do you have any pics of what it should look like?

I wouldn't expect Volvo to make any offer or statement, the car is 15yrs old and is exposed to a harsh environment. Japanese cars disintegrate in a corrosive environment.

Post by **scot850** » 24 Mar 2015, 11:15

I am not totally surprised by Volvos' actions, but still disappointed in their lack of concern in the slightest. Toyota recalled their Tundra trucks in the last couple of years for rear frame rust issues and that was for their first generation trucks from around 00 year.

I don't have a picture of what it should look like, but if you look at the 99 V70XC picture it is the closest I have to what the aluminum portion should look like.

I also believe this may not be a widespread issue and may be more localised due to the temperature variations we get here (from -40C to +30C) and possibly what is put on the roads in winter. We actually have a dry climate here in Calgary for the most part, in comparison to say the rust belt out east.

Neil.

Post by **scot850** » 25 Mar 2015, 15:41

There are times I amaze myself how poor my memory is. Mecheng you asked for pictures of a 'good' rear sub-frame (actually it is the lower section that is the problem).

I completely overlooked the obvious answer that I have a good replacement lower section sitting waiting for me to install it. So in answer to your question:

: RH side - rear of car to left of picture

What you are looking for is a continuous arc for the outer flange from front to rear. If you look at the photo below you can see a chunk is missing

: RH side of corroded 2000R

Below is what a good one should look like with no pitting around the raised bolt hole

: RH side rear section and mount hole for bolt

Below is the front mounting hole on the RH side. Again looking for continuous arc of side flange and not pitting. This frame is dirty, and after a clean and a coat of paint will look new again.

: RH side front mounting bolt hole

Next 3 photos are of the LH side. Sub-frame came from a Canadian west coast 2000 V70XC with low mileage and had been written off following a front shunt. Rear 3/4 of car was un-scathed. They use very little salt on the roads, although they do have more airborne salt due to coastline proximity.

: LH side of rear sub-frame

: LH side rear section and mount for bolt

: RH side front mounting bolt hole

Hope this gives better clarity for what to look for. Also look for top edges of the side flange starting to look ragged or turning dull with a white coloration as this is the aluminum degrading.

Finally look under the rear most part of the sub-frame just forward of where it starts to raise up in-front of the rear bolt hole. This on my car and the 2000 R in the PnP are almost eaten through as if acid were being dripped on them.

Neil.

jadnhm · Post by **jadnhm** » 20 Dec 2015, 10:18

I have a 1998 V70 AWD with ~265k miles that has the same problem. I live in the 'rust belt out east' you spoke of earlier - New Brunswick to be exact. I have had the car ~8 years now and the frame was corroded when I got it. I came from NS and from the eastern US before that (hence he odometer reading in miles).

It doesn't appear to actually pose a problem in terms of functionality at the moment, though it's not hard to envision a day in the future when it will. The section of the frame that has corroded on mine appears mainly to locate the bolt holes and not actually provide any structure, but I imagine someday soon it will not pass the provincial inspection either because it actually is unsafe or a cranky inspector decides he doesn't like the cut of my car's jib.

For me, I know straight up I cannot afford either the shop time or the time away from work/family issues to replace this part, and I'm afraid this issue will be the end of the car's life. Unfortunate as the rest of the car is in very good working order considering its age.

2000 V70R - AWD Rear Sub-frame corrosion

Re: 2000 V70R - AWD Rear Sub-frame corrosion