96/98 Alternate Service light reset

[esl_97_850_T5]

Blockpartie,

I respect your knowledge.

But I have failed to find any gauge test procedure for '96-'97 850 that have been "well documented on the net" and explicitly included the B031 request. Please enlighten me with a complete URL.

esl_97_850_T5

[Blockpartie]

I only said that the gauge test itself is well documented, nothing more. This was only meant to correct your statement of discovering "[how to perform] a new function that, to my knowledge, has not been documented anywhere on the net".
Obviously the part in [ ] is what matters to you, unfortunately I can't give you an URL as paper is an analog storage medium.

[esl_97_850_T5]

Blockpartie,

1. Thanks for the clarification. I can see my misunderstanding now.

2. And thanks for the prior explanation of why the Turbo Boost gauge does not move during the COMBI's response to the B031 request.

3. Of course, I know about the '95 850 test procedure in "instrument panel.pdf" in Volvo_850.zip. And I've seen the disabled "start instruments test" button in Brick-Diag Free, so I assume there's some KWPD3B0 exchange to accomplish the gauge test on a '96-'97 850. But I've never seen anywhere on the (public) net that detailed the message exchange for that instrument gauge test, so I was glad that I accidentily happened upon it (or happened upon something which is at least somewhat similar to it).

4. As far as your prior question about "did only the needles of the gauges move?", I did some more complete testing and the answer to your question is that after issuing ATSH 83 51 13 then B031 (or after issuing ATSH 84 51 13 then B03100 [this 2nd duo probably only works for 850, not for S70/V70]):

- the needles (except Turbo Boost) swung thru their ranges over a several second period,
- Turbo Boost remained vertical,
- the Low Fuel (ie, gas pump icon) light was blinking while the Fuel Level gauge needle was moving,
- the digital trip odometer did *not* increment, contrary to what the "Trip meter should indicate an extra .5 mile" comment in the '95 850 oriented "instrument panel.pdf" might suggest,
- my mechanical odometer is broken, so it could not be tested to see if the "Trip meter should indicate an extra .5 mile" comment applies to it,
- even though my SERVICE light is burnt out, I can tell that it would have been blinking in unison with the Low Fuel light, because of what I saw when issuing the 3 commands ATSH 84 51 13, then B03100, then A50701, then pressing the Enter key repeatedly as fast I could to repeat the A50701 request repeatedly and observing the status flag byte in the E507 response as alternating between 7C & 70 when at ignition pos II, then 73 & 7F when engine is running. In the E507 response, bit 3 is Low Fuel on/off and bit 4 is SERVICE on/off. Those 2 bits toggled in unison.

I performed the tests at ignition pos II, then with the engine running. The behavior was similar for the engine running case, except that: a) Turbo Boost gauge showed the actual boost, and b) the other lights were off (besides my SRS, which happens to have 3 DTCs).

So for most '96-'97 850 that have no DTCs in any ECU and have working Low Fuel and SERVICE lights and whose SERVICE light does not presently come on during the first 2 minutes after engine on, as far as the lights go, I would expect to see during the B031 test at ignition pos II: all lights lit which are normally lit when ignition pos II, plus the Low Fuel and SERVICE lights blinking every few seconds. And during the B031 test with engine on, I would expect to see: no lights lit, except the Low Fuel and SERVICE lights blinking every few seconds.

I would expect any VST, VST equivalent, Brick-Diag Full, etc exchange for the instrument gauge test to look like:

83 51 13 B0 31 C8
83 13 51 F0 31 08

which is the same exchange that occurs when an ELM327 exchange looks like:

> ATSH 83 51 13
OK

>B031
83 13 51 F0 31 08

and the ATSH 83 51 13 / B031 is preceded by all the proper ELM327 KWPD3B0 setup which is explained a slew of other places.

If that's not the case, then why not let us know what's different or missing?
Is a different B0xx request used besides B031?
Or is an additional B0xx request used in addition to B031?
Or should a B2xx request be thrown in there?
Or what?

5. As far as "That would indicate a non complete test procedure...", I could easily believe that more testing needs to be done with some test equipment, meters, jumpers, etc, as is explained a variety of places in "instrument panel.pdf" for the '95 850 to isolate which gauges, lights, sensors, etc might be failing.

But for the '96-'97 850, if the gauges are moving like I explained and the Low Fuel and SERVICE lights are blinking, does the B031 not generally mimic what is "test mode 3" in the '95 oriented "instrument panel.pdf" using the under-the-hood A-B diagnostic connector? [I'm referring to the paragraphs just before "INSTRUMENT CLUSTER DIAGNOSTIC FAULT CODES TABLE (1995)".]

It could be that a dealer would look at my Fuel Gauge needle swings and conclude something was failing in my Fuel Level sensing system, judging from the fact that my Min / Max seems to me to be skewed low. Is that what you're referring to as a possible lack of completeness to the test? The dealer would do things beyond what I've seen with the B031? Or the dealer would measure voltages, resistance, etc while the needles were fluctuating? Is that what you're alluding to? Or might there be another B0xx request which can cause the 1/2 full reading on a '96-97 850 that's mentioned under the '95 oriented "instrument panel.pdf" FUEL GAUGE TEST? Can you give us any specifics to add to the global public Volvo knowledgebase for these weird in-between '96-97 850 and '98 S70/V70?

esl_97_850_T5

[Blockpartie]

Was referring to the lights which have to be blinking during the test procedure. They did, so all is well. I find such things to be hard to describe so I simply asked.

Trip meter obviously can't be tested if mechanically broken. You should be able to hear a very quiet *click* from the motor trying to engage though.

[esl_97_850_T5]

Thanks for the additional test procedure details, and, especially for the "hard to describe" explanation. I can definitely relate to finding things hard to describe, though I tend to adapt by becoming way too verbose. Thanks, again.

[esl_97_850_T5]

Does it appear on bulb check,when key is in positon II,along with all other little bulbs?...

Is it orange light with "service" message on it?

It does test.

1. This failed to register with me the first time I read it. From it, I can now see that ThommyKent's SERVICE light is actually still working, since it is still illuminating when ignition is at pos II (after the battery was disconnected/reconnected). In that situation there is absolutely no need to check that "SERVICE flag should be on/off during 1st 2 minutes after engine on" status bit (or status byte) that I had previously mentioned -- the one that's contained in the response to ECU 51 A50601 and A50701. Since his SERVICE light passes the ignition pos II illumination test, we can safely assume that the SERVICE light will be on during the 2 minutes after the engine on event, after one of the SERVICE Reminder Interval limits is exceeded once again.

2. Now combine that with this 2014-08-14 quote by Blockpartie in this volvospeed post:

...I've personally come across one case where a cluster lost all of its programming and went "blank".

3. Might it be possible that ThommyKent's resetting of the SERVICE flag seeming to be correlated with the battery disconnect is a 2nd case where a cluster lost all of its programming and went "blank"?

I'd be curious to know from Blockpartie what was "lost" or "blank", what was in a default state, what was in a factory state, etc vs. what was "remembered", if anything, cluster type (Yazaki, VDO), etc. Of course, I can understand if he can't remember the details clearly, since he might have dealt with hundreds of vehicles since that time. But if he can remember some of the info, it would be nice to know.

And I'd be curious to know from ThommyKent if he did anything odd or noticed anything odd between the last time he saw the SERVICE on within 2 minutes after engine on before the battery disconnect, and the first time he saw the SERVICE light illuminated during ignition pos II, but not within 2 minutes after engine on and after the battery disconnect. Anything that would give us a clue as to why his COMBI reset the SERVICE light in this situation would be helpful, since this is an extremely rare situation and may have been reported only one other time.

Some things that might be useful to know, in either ThommyKent's or Blockpartie's cases:

- Coincident with the unexpected SERVICE reset or "lost" / "blank" conditions, had anyone tried to use a flashing LED tool while connecting its OBDII pin 7 for the data exchange (and pin 5 for ground and pin 16 for +12V) instead of using OBDII pin 3 (Motronic 4.3), pin 6 (ECC), or pin 13 (Cruise Control) for the data exchange? Had someone tried to perform a SERVICE light reset or mileage reading using the procedures designed for '95 850 under-the-hood A-B connectors, but adapted to use a flashing LED tool and connected to OBDII pin 7, as takane2 has described on MVS to (supposedly) read his '97 850 mileage via pin 7?

- Had the dash been removed and/or reinstalled coincident with the unexpected SERVICE reset or "lost" / "blank" conditions?

- Was the key at ignition pos II when the battery was disconnected and/or when it was reconnected?

- Had the battery gotten so bad that after 10 minutes at ignition pos II, the car would no longer start?

- What kind of COMBI? Yazaki or VDO? What was Hardware Id/Rev and Software Id/Rev?

- What kind of engine/fuel ECU? Motronic 4.3, Motronic 4.4, other? What was Hardware Id/Rev and Software Id/Rev?

- Any other pertinent questions?

4. ThommyKent, if you're curious and want to test within a day if your SERVICE light can be cleared via battery disconnect, you can cause your SERVICE light to come on much sooner than normal, by lessening the SERVICE Reminder 1/4 Days Limit (in ECU 51 B907). This is oftentimes referred to as a "Months" limit. But actually it measures -- and its corresponding counter (in ECU 51 B906) counts -- very precisely in 6-hour intervals. The almost universal value in B907 is 1440 = 12 (months) * 30 (approximate days per month) * 4 (6-hour intervals per day). When B907 is read with an ELM327, this 1440 (ie, 360 days, ie, roughly 12 months) value appears as:

>B907
85 13 51 F9 07 A0 05 8E

You can change it to its minimum of 6 hours then verify the new limit using the following ELM327 AT commands and KWPD3B0 requests (issued either at ignition pos II or with the engine running):

ATZ
ATL1
ATE1 or ATE0 (depending on your terminal emulator and the ATPP 09 value for your ELM327)
ATI
ATSP 3
ATDP
ATH1
ATAL
ATKW0
ATTA 13
ATRA 13
ATIIA 51
ATWM 82 51 13 A1
ATSH 83 51 13
B907
ATSH 85 51 13
B807 0100
ATSH 83 51 13
B907

Those final 6 lines should look like the following on your terminal emulator display when viewing both what you type and what the ELM327 compatible device displays as a response:

>ATSH 83 51 13
OK

>B907
85 13 51 F9 07 A0 05 8E

>ATSH 85 51 13
OK

>B807 0100
83 13 51 F8 07 E6

>ATSH 83 51 13
OK

>B907
85 13 51 F9 07 01 00 EA

After you do that, wait for somewhere between 6 hours +/- 6 hours -- let's say, wait for 12 hours + 1 minute. You should then see the SERVICE light illuminated during the 2 minutes after turning the engine on, if your SERVICE light does still work. You can then turn off the engine, disconnect the battery, wait whatever time you deem appropriate, reconnect the battery, and turn the engine back on to see if the SERVICE light is illuminated during the 2 minutes after turning the engine on. Preferably, try to repeat whatever process you had done originally when disconnecting/reconnecting the battery and the SERVICE light had magically cleared.

Regardless whether the SERVICE light is on or not during the 2 minutes after turning the engine on, please report the results back to us at this thread. From my perspective, it would be extremely useful to also see the complete ELM327 message exchange that you see on your terminal emulator, as can be done by copying the scrolled log from the STNterm terminal emulator, along with any comments you deem pertinent to explain the log.

Assuming your "1/4 Days" limit was originally 1440, reprogram it back from its present value of 1 to the original value of 1440 using the following sequence (issued either at ignition pos II or with the engine running):

ATZ
ATL1
ATE1 or ATE0 (depending on your terminal emulator and the ATPP 09 value for your ELM327)
ATI
ATSP 3
ATDP
ATH1
ATAL
ATKW0
ATTA 13
ATRA 13
ATIIA 51
ATWM 82 51 13 A1
ATSH 83 51 13
B907
ATSH 85 51 13
B807 A005
ATSH 83 51 13
B907

Those final 6 lines should look like the following on your terminal emulator display when viewing both what you type and what the ELM327 compatible device displays as a response:

>ATSH 83 51 13
OK

>B907
85 13 51 F9 07 01 00 EA

>ATSH 85 51 13
OK

>B807 A005
83 13 51 F8 07 E6

>ATSH 83 51 13
OK

>B907
85 13 51 F9 07 A0 05 8E

Also, you can immediately Reset SERVICE Light after that is done by issuing these extra 3 lines (as long as you haven't turned the ignition off or killed the engine since that last B907 display -- if you had already turned ignition off, then you'll need to reissue the ATZ thru ATWM commands first before proceeding):

ATSH 83 51 13
B030
B230

Those lines should appear as:

>ATSH 83 51 13
OK

>B030
83 13 51 F0 30 07

>B230
NO DATA

Wait about 10 seconds or so, then turn ignition off, wait a few seconds -- I'd suggest 5-10 seconds -- then turn engine back on and see if the SERVICE light is now off during the 2 minutes after engine on. It should be.

For the people with a different "1/4 Days" limit -- or "Months" limit, if you want to call it that -- that is not 1440 6-hour intervals, but some other # of 6-hour intervals, then you'll need to change the instructions above that include "A005" and "A0 05" to correspond to what your first B907 response contains.

5. If using volvo850diag, all the above instructions in item 4 would correspond roughly to:

- Display local copy of volvo850diag.html, extracted from volvo850diag.zip downloaded from jonesrh.info.
- Click "Start Realterm".
- Click "ATZ Setup for ECUs 51/58/01...".
- Ensure either engine is running or ignition is at pos II, if that's not already the case.
- Click ECU 51 "Setup".
- Click ECU 51 "Read DTCs".
- Click ECU 51 "Full Scan".
- Click down-arrow in "Select SERVICE Reminder Indicator (SRI) limit(s)" pulldown list.
- Select the 1st item under 1/4 Days limit, the one that says "1 = 6 calendar hours [min > 0]".
- Click "Reprogram SRI limit(s)".
- Wait about 15 seconds. By then the Realterm Terminal pane should have finished scrolling.
- Look at the Realterm Terminal pane to see if the response to B907 was "85 13 51 F9 07 01 00 EA".
- Click "Close Realterm".
- Wait for 12 hours, plus 1 minute.
- Turn on the engine and verify that the SERVICE light is indeed lit during the first 2 minutes after the engine is turned on.
- Turn off the engine, disconnect the battery, wait appropriate time, reconnect the battery, and turn the engine back on to see if the SERVICE light is illuminated during the 2 minutes after turning the engine on. Preferably repeat whatever you had done before when disconnecting/reconnecting the battery and the SERVICE light had magically cleared.
- Reprogram your "1/4 Days" limit back from its present value of 1 to the value of 1440 using the following sequence...
- Display local copy of volvo850diag.html.
- Click "Start Realterm".
- Click "ATZ Setup for ECUs 51/58/01...".
- Ensure either engine is running or ignition is at pos II, if that's not already the case.
- Click ECU 51 "Setup".
- Click ECU 51 "Read DTCs".
- Click ECU 51 "Full Scan".
- Click down-arrow in "Select SERVICE Reminder Indicator (SRI) limit(s)" pulldown list.
- Select the item under 1/4 Days limit that "1440 = 360 days ~= 1 year [very common]".
- Click "Reprogram SRI limit(s)".
- Wait about 15 seconds. By then the Realterm Terminal pane should have finished scrolling.
- Look at the Realterm Terminal pane to see if the response to B907 was "85 13 51 F9 07 A0 05 8E".
- Reset the SERVICE light by clicking the "*" button (which follows the ECU 51 "Clear DTCs" button).
- If you see a dialog box that says "Are you sure you want to ... turn off the SERVICE light)?", then click OK.
- Wait about 15 seconds or so, then turn ignition off.
- Wait a few seconds more -- I'd suggest 5-10 seconds more -- then turn engine back on and see if the SERVICE light is now off during the 2 minutes after engine on. It should be.
- Click "Close Realterm".
- Optionally, submit the 2 volvo850diag logs to http://jonesrh.info/volvo850/kwpd3b0_interpreter.html if you want an interpretation of all that happened. What would be best is to paste them both into the "Paste..." box at the same time, preferably in the chronological order that they were produced. And feel free to add explanatory notes in the "Paste..." box as you deem pertinent to explain the logs.

6. The instructions in item 4 and item 5 work for both '96-'97 850 and '98 S70/V70/etc.

esl_97_850_T5

[ThommyKent]

Here are some answers to your questions. The battery would not take a charge. Motronic 4.3 with IPD upgrade. The weird thing was when I first installed the new battery the alarm went off. I locked and unlocked the doors with FOB and then turned key to position II to get it to stop. After installation and initial startup the service light was out.

[Blockpartie]

I think you are reading to much into my statement of "it went blank". I really meant it when I wrote lost all of its programming, kind of what happens when you hold a big magnet over a floppy disc.
What kind of EMS is installed doesn't matter for the SRI. I mean a MSA cluster works in a MT car just fine.

ThommyKent:
Your battery replacement is what triggered the SRI reset. Usually the alarm should not be triggered by the replacement of a battery, using the remote to lock/unlock the car should silence it in any case. The fact that you had to use the key at all tells me that your old battery might just have confused the systems.