96 850R Front Cam Seals

[erikv11]

What kahl said. There are two cams. Each cam has a front seal (passenger side) and a rear seal (driver's side). So that makes four cam seals altogether.

The rear cam seals are super easy to do, it is not a bad idea to replace them while working on the fronts. But not necessary. And as suggested by cn90 you MUST only use Corteco or Volvo seals, anything else and you may be just wasting time and money.

If you want to think about doing this yourself then look carefully at cn90's post, that's what he was posting about. DIY will cost you $50-100 for parts (that's for 4 cam seals and 1 timing belt, and depending on where you shop; obviously cheaper if you just get the 2 front cam seals) but the timing belt part is slightly tricky for a novice.

[RussB]

Has the PCV system ever been serviced/replaced? The cause of the leak COULD be excessive internal pressure. My point is that a seal leak can be just failed seals, or failed seals due to pressure, with the later being a can of worms. You replace the leaking seals, then other seals start leaking...around and around you go

[cn90]

Just to summarize, I agree with erikv11...

- If TB has never been done (do you have old service records?), then do the whole 9 yards: TB, Pulleys x2, 2 FRONT cam seals (Corteco only).
- No need to do the Crank seal, that thing rarely rarely leaks before 200K. Check to be sure.
- The REAR Cam seals are super easy, once the CPS and Distributor are off, it is there.

Anyway, all info is in forum, take your time and read through it.
This is within a reach of a person who is willing to learn. We all started as a kid nothing nothing and now we fix cars.
So as long as you have the ability to learn, go for it. When in doubt, get an experienced Saturday mechanic to help you.

[erikv11]

And RussB also has a great point, OP you would be well advised do the "glove test" you can do that yourself, totally easy. I know the idea has been around forever but maybe rspi made a video for it by now?

[dosbricks]

rspi PCV function test starting at about 5:50

[wackenhut]

So as it turns out, I looked at my receipt from when I got the timing belt/water pump replaced about 4.5 months ago, and my mechanic supposedly changed the cam seals. I guess either I paid for it, and he didn't do them, or they just went bad. Kind of interesting.

[rguzz]

Yes, Robert DIY has great video demonstrating how to do this, IIRC. No special skill required.

[cn90]

Yes, Robert DIY has great video demonstrating how to do this, IIRC. No special skill required.

The FRONT cam seals are NOT easy job:
- Removing it using sheet metal screw has its own pitfalls (the novice may mar the rotating surface on the shaft ---> leak later).
- Installation trick: it took me a few years to figure out the trick is to use a piece of PVC coupler that is cut down to fit behind the sprocket.

So, to summarize:
- "Easy": NO!
- "No special skill required": Hmmm, to me special skill is needed, especially for the Exhaust seal. The seal lip can fold over if the seal is driven in too fast without adequate oil on the lip.

This is NOT a job for the novice...

[erikv11]

Agreed, rears are easy for anyone, fronts are easy for a mechanic but a mechanic hopefully has special skills. I have replaced several and not had any problem with the "folded lip" so I'm not sure what that is about.

So as it turns out, I looked at my receipt from when I got the timing belt/water pump replaced about 4.5 months ago, and my mechanic supposedly changed the cam seals. I guess either I paid for it, and he didn't do them, or they just went bad. Kind of interesting.

Which seals, front or rear or both? If the mechanic used whatever cheap seal he could get from the auto parts store, like Elring brand, then it could be bad already.

[cn90]

To illustrate the concept of "seal lip folding over", I borrow some random photos from the web. In terms of relative movement between seal vs shaft, these 2 photos illustrate the opposite phenomena:

- To the LEFT is Volvo 850 Axle Seal, courtesy of "xHeart". During Axle insertion, the Axle pushes the lip inward (toward the Garter Spring), so there is no way for the lip to fold over.

- To the RIGHT is a Subaru WRX Cam Seal (random photo from the web). Now the Cam shaft is fixed (stationary), the Cam Seal is pushed inward. So the lip has a tendency to be pulled away from the Garter Spring.
This was exactly what happened to my 1998 S70 Exhaust Cam seal installation a few years ago, mainly b/c of limited visibility and it was my first time dealing with it. The folded seal leaked like a sieve, glad I caught it before the engine ran dry!
Subsequently, I learned to install it slowly and used my finger to run around the inner lip as I install it. Of course, you need to oil the lip beforehand.

You can see more about this seal lip folding over in the Subaru forum:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=2088820


Hope this helps clarify the issue of lip folding over: