Failed Timing Belt, but any hope???

[tflesui]

Greetings MVS,

1st, let me start by saying I am a the "somewhat" new owner of a 2000 s40 1.9T (B4042T2) but very new to Volvo's in general and fairly new to DIY auto fixes. Please bear with me if I don't use/know proper terminology, etc. I am a Computer Science student at SF State so technical projects are not foreign to me, nor is doing research to help me find a solution/answer to my problem.

Let me start with a little background in this long journey that I am terrified will have a sad ending. My wife and I were sharing the 2000 s40 her father gave to her as a commuter for a while but we recently had our first child and decided it was time for her to upgrade to a more modern, spacious vehicle. She ended up getting a 2014 Kia Sportage and I was gifted the Volvo to use exclusively since I did not have my own vehicle. So after becoming more familiar with the s40, little by little, I began to fall in love with this little sedan and officially became a Volvo fan. Even though this one has been around for a while I pretty much saw it as my project car and daily commuter. I tried to maintain it frquently and never had major problems. Lucky my father-in=law is an old school gearhead and our neighbor is a retired mechanic so between the two of them they usually fix the family's car problems.

A while back when needing to get the car smogged for this year's registration. I came into a few issues when receiving a code about a bad Mass Air Flow sensor. After a few trips to Pick-n-Pull I found a sensor on a 2002 s40 that cleared the code and allowed me to return the brand new one from AutoZone and save quite a bit however during this whole process I did have a misfiring issue that we traced back to one of the coils and/or coil connectors which I luckily snatched from PIck-n-Pull at the same time.

With the new coils, sensor, and oil changes the car was running pretty good until a buddy of mine, when I was giving a ride, noticed a little jerking when accelerating, which I did too but couldn't figure out what it could be. It was similar to the jerking when the car would misfire under load but not as bad plus I could continue to accelerate and maintain speeds above 65mph, which I couldn't do before. My buddy suggested I might need a new motor mount but the neighbor suggested I make sure the spark plugs were free from debris/liquid. I tried the spark plug solution first since it obviously could be done for a much lower price and physical effort.

Now for the series of bad parts: I purchased new spark plugs and decided to change them and noticed the old ones were definitely worn and could use a change. Now, when I was peeking around the spark plugs and after removing the timing belt cover to get a peek I noticed a lot of oil within the grooves and all over the timing belt and camshaft sprockets that I knew could not be normal. The most alarming part was seeing the timing belt halfway off both camshafts and I assumed barely being held in place by the plastic side covers. So, being the novice I am, i tried to slide the timing belt back on the camshafts to fully cover the gears and with the excess oil I accidentally slipped the belt completely off both camshafts. Then, because I am such a novice, I thought I could force the timing belt back on and ended up jumping one of the camshaft gears a few teeth which I knew for a fact was not a good thing and I stopped immediately to wait for the household mechanic(s) to check it out.

The initial problem was just trying to figure out how to align the timing marks on the Volvo just to get the belt back on and the car running. However our neighbor looked at all the oil, which was the initial culprit for the timing belt coming off, and suggested that the problem might be a faulty cam seal which my father-in-law proceeded to try and fix since the belt was off anyway. I, in trying to do my own research on the issue, offered to purchase a new timing belt kit with water pump or at the very least a new timing belt but was told not to waste my money and that everything was good enough so dont' worry about, etc. The reason I mention this is because it relates to one of my questions which i'll state later.

After a few days installing a new seal and re-aligning the timing and fan belts I was told the car starts up and is good to go, BUT to keep it to the streets when going to work to let the fluids and other changes run through the engine before the car was back to fully back to normal.. I understood the logic in this and did drive around on the street for a little bit but then decided to go to a friends shop so I could install some pre-cut window tint I just purchased.

Needless to say, on my way to the shop, while I was on the freeway, the engine cut out on me, the batery symbol lights up on the dashboard and the power steering is pretty much gone too. After I pull onto the shoulder and check under the hood and removing the plastic timing belt cover I see NO timing belt over the cams and chewed up rubber close to the tensionor pulley. At this point I am pretty sick to my stomach and fear the worst of damaged valves and/or pistons which i previously read is a possibility. I did not hear any loud bang or clank prior to pulling off the freeway but I did have my music pretty loud and could have missed it since I really dont know how loud or noticible that sort of thing is.

So here are my questions: 1) Was my father-in-law a little to lax on the old timing belt when he turned down my offer to purchase a new one even though we weren't doing a full timing belt job? (a buddy of mine mentioned that the old belt could be stretched out by now since we have no record of when it was last replaced and by buying a new one we could help prevent a failure, which is exactly what happened). 2) Would the advice to only use the streets for the next couple days to let the engine work out any kinks have prevented the timing belt failure or was he referring to something else completely? 3) And lastly, seeing as I didn't hear anything but also recognizing that I maybe missed it, is it possible that the damage is limited and the volvo could be fixed without junking it completely? I realize new valves and possible piston repair is in the future but is there any way (compression test?) to find out how bad the damage is and whether or it's worth fixing??

So sorry for the long explanaiton but I definitely would appreciate feedback to any part of this topic. I will try to include pictures in a future update to this topic. Thanks so much!!

-F

[abscate]

At Anything above idle speed, a timing belt failure means cylinder head off and new valves.

Yeah, the FIL who thinks he is a mechanic is the culprit here, the seals should have been fixed, but before that, the PCV should be serviced, which caused the seals to fail.

No point in calling him out on this. Getting between spouse and her father is likely to bend valves in the house much harder to fix than your Volvos.

PS...buddy here is also dangerous. Timing belts don't stretch and break, the idler or tensioner or water pump seizes and that breaks the belt. You replace all of them when you do a TB job.

Invite pops to help with the head work, tell him you need help every other weekend.
Alternate weekends come back here and we will fix what he did wrong.

[alschnertz]

1) Was my father-in-law a little to lax on the old timing belt when he turned down my offer to purchase a new one even though we weren't doing a full timing belt job? (a buddy of mine mentioned that the old belt could be stretched out by now since we have no record of when it was last replaced and by buying a new one we could help prevent a failure, which is exactly what happened). 2) Would the advice to only use the streets for the next couple days to let the engine work out any kinks have prevented the timing belt failure or was he referring to something else completely? 3) And lastly, seeing as I didn't hear anything but also recognizing that I maybe missed it, is it possible that the damage is limited and the volvo could be fixed without junking it completely? I realize new valves and possible piston repair is in the future but is there any way (compression test?) to find out how bad the damage is and whether or it's worth fixing?? So sorry for the long explanaiton

#1. The oil soaked timing belt should never have been re-used.

#2. No. If the job was done correctly, you should have been able to "drive like hell" right out of the box. Did your FIL use a cam locking tool when he set up the new timing belt? It's almost impossible to get it installed properly without it.

#3. Unlikely. You cannot perform a compression test with a broken timing belt. You can roll the dice and change the timing belt and then try the compression test. My gut says you probably have a bent valve or two.

Don't apologize for the well thought out explanation. Too often there is not enough information.

FWIW, I suspect your initial problem was not a cam seal, but a VVT hub seal which is a very common failure on this vehicle.
And I agree with abscate, don't turn this into an issue with your FIL. If you're interested in doing shade tree mechanics, this may be a good starting place. But keep in mind the value of the car. I know I've invested way more than my '01 is worth over the past 2 years. I'm ok with that since I know the car very well and will be passing on to my daughter when she gets her license.

[tflesui]

Wow, thank you guys do much for the quick response and insightful info. I appreciate the tips on dealing with the FIL as I am only 10mo into a new marriage yet living with my in laws so trying to balance the right amount of respect and initiative is a daily battle.

I definitely feel like the old timing belt was not a good idea to be reused and yes it had previously been sprayed with oil, however, I do want to clarify the belt and cam shaft and crank areas had been "cleaned up" with gasoline in order for the FIL and neighbor to try and spot the leak.

The cam locking tool was not used however it was one of the tools i offered to purchase in order to help make the job easier and in my mind, would be useful if in the future more work needed to be done. To my knowledge FIL used vice grips in order to keep cams in place to preserve timing but i was not there to witness exactly how it was done.

Again, thank you for the answers so far and also for the marital advice. I must add that i have nothing against FIL and honestly am just thankful to be able to use a car he purchased. I guess my questions were partly for my own piece of mind and in case i needed to defend my driving on the freeway despite the warning to keep it to street use.

Going forward, I'm pretty sure in the next few weeks I'll be taking a look under the cylinder head with FIL and as for now I'll try to get him mentally prepared for the possibility of replacing valves, my question now is, what kind of time and money am i looking at to try and bring my volvo back to life? I would love to continue to use it and make it 'my own' by adding various upgrades when possible but if it doesn't make sense financially to even try and start working on it again then I'd rather turn the effort into searching for a replacement volvo.

Cheers,
F