1995 Volvo 850 - is it worth a buy?

Ligr · Post by **Ligr** » 22 Apr 2016, 00:36

Hello there!

I am in a bit of a pickle. Recently I have been offered by my parents to take a 1995 Volvo 850 for free.The car has 130.000 kilometers on it. Stock 2.5L engine, no turbo, automatic. The car history is as follows: 6 years usage in Moscow, parked outside (all the crazy chemicals Russians used in winter might or might not have done damage). 2001-2004: used in Vienna. Since 2004 it has been sitting in a garage, used maybe once a year, sometimes less.

The car has been in a major accident once (in fact, I was a child back then and I was in it when it happened), but has been fully restored by an authorized dealer and no damage to the engine/transmission/car geometry had occured. It is indeed a tank - the other car - an Opel sedan, could not drive off from the scene of the acciden, because the steering components and the wheel where the impact happened turned into mush

. Our car drove off just fine.

Optically, it now looks pretty good, save for a scratch on the bumper and sort of a nasty little scratch to the metal on the rear side.

Now, even though I am getting it gifted, I will incur financial costs right off the bat, because I will have to import it into the EU, so that's 10%+20% import tax based on the value of the car + state emissions tax. Totalling about 1.000 euros, depending on how well I can argumentate to the authorities the actual value of the car.

Now, I read up on the car, and I understand that at the very least following will need to be serviced/changed: heater core, belt and tensioner, filters, radiator, all fluids (obviously), brakes. But here is where your expertise comes in: I can only do proper repairs once a year, as this will be the time when I will have access to a good mechanic/place to work on it myself. The rest of the time, the car will be parked outside and I will not be able to work on it. So, if I go ahead and repair the "known" weakspots of the car as per robertdyi and this website, will it run for me in good order? What I want is this: a car that I can expect to turn on everyday and haul me around. In return, I service it faithfully once a year, not skipping on on "big money" items.

The reason why I'm asking, is because a friend has an e36 that he has sunk tons of money into, and yet he still has regular problems with it and spends more time in the shop than on the streets. And that is a real bummer.

The car has sentimental value to me (like I said, used to ride in it as a child), I love the way it sounds. I'm fine with putting money into it, but I'm unsure about reliability. Will it serve?

JRev · Post by **JRev** » 22 Apr 2016, 06:25

A Volvo 850 that spent time in Moscow? For sure its worth a buy!
I think most will tell you these cars are easy to work on, so once you repair the major issues which could make it a non runner, or preventive maintenance then its just a case of a regular service and you have a car which won't let you down.

You only need to look at the number of 850's S/V/C70's which have been run into the ground by owners who have no interest in keeping the car long term, yet these cars are often still drivable, or only needing minor repairs.

I know myself after taking care of work needed to keep the car in excellent condition, its unlikely I will have to attend to any further work until the next yearly inspection, while previously I was using the S70 to and from work (90 miles round trip, 5 days a week) and no major work was needed for over a year.

Post by **renns** » 22 Apr 2016, 06:49

With a car of that vintage, there's likely something that'll need attention a couple times per year, and those items will not likely be perfectly synchronized with your calendar. If you can truly only work on the car once per year, and expect it to be trouble-free in between, then a 20+ yr old Volvo is not the best choice IMO. If the cash outlay is low enough, you can always give it a try, and throw in the towel if it gets to be too much of a hassle. Who knows, you might get lucky and get a couple good years!

Post by **erikv11** » 22 Apr 2016, 07:56

This is the same dilemma I had about sending an aging P80 off to school with one of my kids. I think it is worth the gamble if you (a) take care of all of the potential no-start problems up front and (b) use ONLY high quality parts in this case. Preventive repairs can really backfire on you if you use aftermarket parts, because the quality of many of them is so poor. For example, a cheap radiator with a guarantee (Autozone radiators are popular among some here in the US) makes sense if you can just swap in another one when it goes bad, but in your case go with Valeo and be sure there are no issues. Same with the heater core - there are tons of junk cores out there that are worse than just leaving in the old one, if the old one isn't leaking yet. Axles are another example, the aftermarket ones are almost uniformly junk. I might do the CV boots as preventive measure, with GKN/Lobro boots, if they are showing any signs of cracking.

Among the common, no-start failure parts fora 20 year old car I would add fuel pump and cam position sensor (Bosch only on that one or you are again just shooting yourself in the foot). Fuel pump relay will likely fail on you but that one you can do on the street, it can wait. It's a little tricky because this car has such low miles, but check all of the cooling system hoses too. Lower rad hose would be a good one to replace up front, it is a pain to get to, maybe the coolant reservoir too. The list gets long ...

Suspension parts will fail but they can wait until the yearly checkup.

Ligr · Post by **Ligr** » 22 Apr 2016, 12:45

Thank you all for your input. This is very valuable information for me. I am really torn. Renns, I certainly do not want this car to run "only a couple" of years. If I am going to take it, I will take care of it. For sure I will not drive it into the ground and sell it for nothing. But you make a good point.

JRev, it's good to hear about your experience. I can only hope I will be as fortunate.

erikv11, your input is valuable, since you have a carbon copy of my situation. Did you after all give the car to one of your kids? How did it turn out?

So far, I am looking at parts and buying directly from an austrian dealer, could you guys have a glance at the parts and at the prices? The stuff is in german, but I will provide the part description here (not all parts are perfectly matched, but I just want to get an idea of the costs).

Here we go...

http://www.pkwteile.at/valeo/7665336 - the radiator (valeo). 230€. Jesus...

http://www.pkwteile.at/bosch/1191518 - Belt and tensioner (bosch) . 83€

http://www.pkwteile.at/bosch/1163560 - brakes front (bosch). 43€

http://www.pkwteile.at/bosch/1163617 - brakes back (bosch) . 15€

http://www.pkwteile.at/bosch/1165633 - brake disc back (bosch). 38€

http://www.pkwteile.at/bosch/1165610 - brake disc front (bosch). 35€

http://www.pkwteile.at/mann-filter/963701 - oil filter (mann). 8€

http://www.pkwteile.at/mann-filter/961733 - air filter (mann) - 13€

http://www.pkwteile.at/valeo/1103965 - heater core (valeo) - 122€

http://www.pkwteile.at/bosch/1156361 - fuel pump (bosch) - 105€

http://www.pkwteile.at/bosch/1148269 - spark plugs (bosch) - 45€

(motor mount top - cannot find, must look up the proper german word)

http://www.pkwteile.at/hella/938064 - cam sensor (sadly not bosch, hella) - 112€

Plus tubes, plus oil, etc. - let's say another 100€.

And the tally is... 900€ + the money for the mechanic (some parts I will do myself, but not all, obviously).

Does this sound about right for a stage 0 tune up? Am I missing a big ticket item here?

Post by **oragex** » 22 Apr 2016, 21:05

The parts above, do all of them need replaced? I think, the least economical choice with a 20 years old car is to replace parts that are not broken so as to get the car to drive more or less like a new one. This proves expensive in the end. I'd rather replace what is really needed (worn, broken) and keep costs to a minimum. Best way is to get used parts off Ebay, used but original ones. There must be plenty for that car, for really not much. There will be plenty of parts that will break now and then but 130000km is low so hopefully no major expenses for the next 50000km.

Post by **Ozark Lee** » 22 Apr 2016, 23:18

While your list is comprehensive for common failure points the only thing that I would address as a preemptive repair is the timing belt and all of its associated components. The water pump is optional at the mileage that is on the car. 130,000 km is nothing. I typically change the water pump on every other timing belt change along with the tensioner and all of the rollers. You have an age issue more than a mileage issue which is not really that stressful on things like the water pump. You could likely get by with just changing the belt but timing belt problems are huge and the rest of the rollers and the tensioner are just not that expensive in the scheme of things.

The tune up items (spark plugs, ignition wires, distributor cap and rotor) are all good investments for a "fresh start" as are the routine maintenance things like the filters and oil change.

On the rest of the stuff I would be inclined to wait for a problem unless this car is something that absolutely has to run everyday and there are no other short term options for a daily commute. The fall into the "plan for the worst and hope for the best" category.

The radiator on my '94 is original to the car and it has nearly 300,000 miles on it. Some of my other radiators have had problems at the 125,000 to 150,000 mile mark. Fortunately all of my radiator leaks have started off slowly and typically involved a crack in the plastic tank at the radiator hose barbs. They all gave me ample time to order in new parts and make it convenient to service on my schedule even if it was a few weeks later. The same thing applies to the heater core. They usually start to leak very slowly.

The one that will stop you dead in your tracks is the fuel pump but mine have failed at wildly different mileages. The '94 kept going till about 260k miles but the last XC that I bought had a bad one when I bought it at around 118k miles. My hypothesis on fuel pump longevity is that it is directly related to refueling habits. They seem to fail sooner if the car is run near empty before a fill-up rather than refueling at about 1/4 tank. Being totally immersed in fuel helps to keep the pump motor cool. You at least have some insight on how the car has been used and at what intervals it was filled up.

The brakes are pretty cheap but that would be a condition based decision.

For what it is worth I sent both of my kids off to college in their respective Volvo's and I only had one stranded on the road failure in the cumulative 9 years between them, My son had a CV joint completely fail on the road while coming home for spring break. When I quizzed him about it he did admit that it had been pretty noisy all semester but that he just didn't want to bother me with it.

The 1,000 Euro import fee is brutal. I wonder if it could be somehow waived since it had previously been registered in Austria. You are on the ground there and are certainly more knowledgeable about the local tariffs and dutys. I whine about paying a 6.25% state sales tax when I first register a car but that tax is waived if I gift the car to my children which I did do in both of their cases.

...Lee

1337 · Post by **1337** » 23 Apr 2016, 00:16

If the car is in good condition, the next questions are...
- do you want an 850?
- if so, do you want a non-turbo?
- do you want an automatic?
- do you want a sedan?

I don't know what the price ranges are in your area. But, here in California, the price of an 850 is pretty much based on condition. I mean, I paid the same for my well-kept manual T5 as lot of people are asking for non-turbo cars. I didn't pay much more than your import fee to buy my T5. So, if a loaded model with all the options is also cheap... then buy exactly the one you want! They're all pretty much worth pocket change (at least where I live).

Ligr · Post by **Ligr** » 23 Apr 2016, 06:07

Lee,

thanks for the very useful input. Roger on the repais. I've looked at the TB videos. I for sure cannot do this alone. Thing is, car is now in Eastern Europe, and I sure as hell wouldn't trust even a dealer there, as I've seen how much they botched up on our daily driver car there. Which I've got to start looking for a good mechanic here in Austria.

As for the rest of repairs, it looks like I will just have to keep a solid stash of cash and be ready for repairs. After looking at the guides, I can do most of them myself. I even found a rent-a-garage here in my city. But it's expensive - 25€ an hour with the lift and all the tools. Will have to do in case of emergency.

Unfortunately, it seems I cannot avoid those import taxes. The car had an exemption from taxes back then and the only good news is that I do not have to run o several offices to get the car "approved" for EU usage.

1337: Well, I see your point. Thing is, this is a family car and has sentimental value to me. I don't mind that's it's not a turbo. Hell, don't even care that's a 4 speed automatic. And there is the advantage of knowing that was taken care of. Question is how much damage does 10+ years of conservation in a garage do...

Post by **hausmeister** » 23 Apr 2016, 07:53

Hallo fellow Austrian

I understand your situation quite well.
And I think it comes down to what you want / are looking for.

If you really like Volvos and the 850 and you are not afraid to invest in it then go for it. That being said, if you want a reliable mostly hassle free daily driver there are better options. The cars are very good, but they are also very old. On any old car there will always be something to repair...
Being able to do most work yourself is critical imo, because if you have to go to a dealer every time you are off cheaper just buying a new car. Also there are not many shops here that specialize in Volvos, and the authorized dealers often do not really want to repair them...

I would not buy parts ahead of time (as they are expensive as you noticed) - from my experience it can take 2-3k € to get such a car in good shape. If it really is in good condition probably not so much.

If you like you can also connect to the local (quite small) community: forum.volvofan.at
Another good source for Parts is skandix.
Send me a message if you like.

That being said, 3 years ago I have bought an 850 '95 T5R that was in bad shape and have been fixing it up as a hobby. I have spent a lot of money on it but I love the car and wouldn't want to trade it.

I also have a s70 which I bought with very low mileage, this car is exremely problem free... have had it for 10 years now. Depends on how the previous owners took care of it.