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My tale of woes, but with a happy ending

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's P80 platform cars -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, including 850 R, 850 T-5R, 850 T-5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

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shadetree_v70
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Joined: 2 November 2009
Year and Model: 1998 V70 GLT
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My tale of woes, but with a happy ending

Post by shadetree_v70 »

......and we all love happy endings :wink:

So FWIW, and maybe it's good for nothing other than reassuring my fellow shadetree mechanics that you are not alone in the confusing world of 70 series, here is my most recent adventure with Marilyn, my wife's 1998 V70 GLT with 312,000 miles.

A couple of weeks ago the timing belt broke while going about 50. The car died abruptly and she had it towed home. Just to see what would happen (and because miracles happen every day) I put on a new belt and cranked, only to hear that dreaded sound of zero compression. Oh well, no surprise there. I pulled the head, and counted 16 bent valves, ordered 20 new valves, sent everything out to be prepped and assembled, and a week later I was ready to start reassembly. Everything was going great, although slow, since I'm super busy with work and just had evenings to spare, but I chipped away and when it came time to start it, NOTHING. No compression, no spark, just that awful whirring sound, same as the night it came back on the flatbed. I realized that I hadn't soaked the cam followers, so they must have collapsed, and proceeded to crank and crank to try to build up some oil and get some better valve action. No good. But no spark either, so I tested the crank sensor (good), and since the cam sensor plug crumbled when I unplugged it, I replaced it. No spark still. Hmmmmm....and here's where I show my boneheadedness......When I set the timing I used number 5 cylinder, not number one. My thought was that while the head was off I would just eyeball TDC by lining up the top of the piston flush with the block surface (I realize now that was at least 2 mistakes right there). my Chilton book illustration shows a misleading diagram depicting firing order where the distributor is closest to #1, but is actually just a representative drawing. I learned later that number one is always closest to the timing belt, and timing is set on these cars not at TDC but slightly BTDC. OH CRAP WHAT HAVE I DONE. Off comes the cam cover, reset to number 1 cylinder (oh there are those marks I keep seeing in pictures), cams in, cover on, get right with Jesus, and hope for the best. Before I cranked, I did have the sense to rotate the motor by hand, and it felt fine. By the way, I rotated it by hand the first time, and didn't feel like it hit anything then either. It sort of started, but didn't want to run. Backfires, no idle, barely revved. Rechecked all the vacuum lines, firing order (wasn't ever disturbed but i was desperate), tested TPS, new orings on the injectors, found a rotten vac line on the FPR tube, still no change. I did notice that unplugging the MAF made it run a tad longer, but not acceptable at all. Finally found the problem: the little flap of metal on the driver side of the intake manifold that retains the PCV tubing was placed between the manifold and the head, instead of on the outside, which was causing a massive air leak. After I corrected it, Marilyn started and ran like the champ she always was. Whew. Drove it around today, everything seems good. Whew.

Since the completion of this project (ordeal) the following thoughts occurred to me:
1. Follow instructions!!!!!!!!
2. How on Earth did I not wreck valves when I cranked the motor with the timing set so wrong? When I corrected it, I did check compression and all the numbers were in spec, and less than 10% different from each other. I really debated pulling the head after I realized my blunder, but I figured it was worth the extra time to try to reset the timing correctly and try it again instead of assuming the worst and doing another headgasket job. I was banking on the hope that since I was able to turn the motor by hand with it set up wrong, that no interference happened, and maybe the collapsed lifters helped me. At any rate, my gamble paid off and I avoided having to pull the head (again) and replace valves (again).
3. The internet is truly awesome.
4. I think I want a Chewbacca mask like the crazy lady on Facebook.

PS78
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Post by PS78 »

Great story man, its always good to hear a successful outcome after that amount of work and troubleshooting.
Always first off the line, while all the cool people are still staring at their phones.

scot850
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Year and Model: 2000 V70 R
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Post by scot850 »

Sometimes when you go through all the extra pain and come out the other side, it almost feels like a greater success!

Way to go on keeping another Volvo on the road. Marilyn will be thankful!

Neil.
2006 V70 2.5T AWD Polestar tune
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70 - Our son now has this and still parked in our garage
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L - Sold
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - Sold

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chrafael
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Year and Model: 1998 v70 GLT
Location: Mandeville, La.
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Post by chrafael »

Just so you don't feel so all alone, I made the same mistake going by the Chilton manual. For days I couldn't figure out why it was backfiring and not starting. Finally looked at other diagrams online and found the error. Long live MVS!

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abscate
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Post by abscate »

Way to stick it out. Your turning it over by hand was the safety net that would have caught it if you had interference.

Chewy is really proud of you tonight....
Empty Nester
A Captain in a Sea of Estrogen
1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 XC90-in-Red
Link to Maintenance record thread

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erikv11
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Post by erikv11 »

Good story, great ending, glad it is on the road for you.
abscate wrote:Way to stick it out. Your turning it over by hand was the safety net that would have caught it if you had interference. ...
That's the thing though - the first time, when the timing was randomly way off, OP didn't hand turn it!! Used the starter, but still no damage. Dodged a bullet it seems. :mrgreen:
'95 854 T-5R, Motronic 4.4, 185k
'98 V70, T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine, 304k, daily driver
'06 S60 R, 197k
'07 XC70, black, 205k
'07 XC70, willow green, 212k
'99 Camry V6 :shock: 153k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k, '98 S70 NA 225k, '96 855 NA 169k

shadetree_v70
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Post by shadetree_v70 »

Actually I did turn it by hand the first time, as per normal procedure. My question is how nothing interfered with number five being used as the reference point for initial timing. But yes I feel like a bullet was dodged.

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abscate
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Post by abscate »

Some real motor head will know the typical dwell angle of valve position open..my guess is it's less than I might think. There are probably relatively few interference positions in the rotation circle. Hand cranking saved the day!!
Empty Nester
A Captain in a Sea of Estrogen
1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 XC90-in-Red
Link to Maintenance record thread

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erikv11
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Post by erikv11 »

abscate wrote: ... . Hand cranking saved the day!!
Oh I see, it appears it did!
'95 854 T-5R, Motronic 4.4, 185k
'98 V70, T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine, 304k, daily driver
'06 S60 R, 197k
'07 XC70, black, 205k
'07 XC70, willow green, 212k
'99 Camry V6 :shock: 153k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k, '98 S70 NA 225k, '96 855 NA 169k

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850 LPT
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Post by 850 LPT »

shadetree_v70 wrote:......, get right with Jesus, and hope for the best.
Well, I'd say that did it :D

He saves your ass.............if you ask for it.
98' S70, base, 5-speed manual, pewter/ tan, 145k miles
99' S70, base, 5-speed manual, nautic blue/ tan, 225k miles, currently inop
06' V70, auto, willow green/ charcoal, 147k miles
79' Ford Capri S, Euro Spec 2.8 V6, T9 5-speed manual, owned since 1986
58' Porsche Diesel Junior
13' Honda Odyssey :oops:
84' Mercedes 300 D, gold/ tan, 420k miles (retirement project :D )

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