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Quick Timing Belt/ Camshaft question

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's extremely popular car line -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, 850 R, 850 T5-R, 850 T5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

noev70t5
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noev70t5

Quick Timing Belt/ Camshaft question

Post by noev70t5 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:55 pm

Im replacing a front cam seal on my 98 v70t5

While setting the timing I noticed that when I have my crank marks aligned, my cams are off from the original markings that were already there.

I dont have an issue driving or accelerating but I want to set it back as close as possible. When idling for over 15 minutes I hear a clicking from the rear cam.

My question is :

Should I line up the crank marks at the bottom, then set my cams to what was originally marked? Or should I replace the seal and have the timing serviced professionally later?
2002 s60 Base - 215k - KIA [08-2014]
2000 s70 Base - 170k - Traded in [2015-16]
1998 v70 t5 - 232k - KIA [2016-2018]
2000 s70 Base - 180K KIA [2018-2018]
1995 850 TURBO - 77K [2019-]

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erikv11
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erikv11

Re: Quick Timing Belt/ Camshaft question

Post by erikv11 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:12 pm

Since you already have the belt off and the cam sprockets off, I would definitely re-zero the timing yourself now.

1. Put the crank exactly on the mark.
2. Use the slots on the rear of the cams to align them perfectly horizontal (i.e., do your best, doesn't have to be *perfect*).
3. Put the sprockets on so that the marks are right in the notches.
4. TIghten the sprocket, install the belt, wrap things up.

The car isn't due soon for a TB change is it? A timing belt definitely stretches over normal service life, can lead to a 1/2 tooth discrepancy, which would be irksome if you are trying to get the timing back to factory settings.
'95 854 T5-R, Motronic 4.4, 185k
'96 855 NA, 145k
'98 S70 NA, 220k (living out west)
'98 V70, T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine, 286k
'06 S60 R, 167k
'99 Camry V6 :shock: 125k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k

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kahl

Re: Quick Timing Belt/ Camshaft question

Post by kahl » Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:14 pm

image.jpg
Following up on erikv11 point #2 here is a crude sketch of the rear cams for aligning. I would find some way to lock the rear cams.

noev70t5
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Re: Quick Timing Belt/ Camshaft question

Post by noev70t5 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:41 pm

yeah... im pretty sure its due, so ill just replace only the seal. but now i have a different issue

i have not put the hydraulic tensioner back on yet, but my shafts look like this (below)

How do i make sure i can line everything up again? I need to do it before the belt gets tightened again

the exhaust side only wants to move clockwise, i need to go counterclockwise about a notch or two

thanks yall!!
Attachments
20160824_173414[1].jpg
2002 s60 Base - 215k - KIA [08-2014]
2000 s70 Base - 170k - Traded in [2015-16]
1998 v70 t5 - 232k - KIA [2016-2018]
2000 s70 Base - 180K KIA [2018-2018]
1995 850 TURBO - 77K [2019-]

noev70t5
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noev70t5

Re: Quick Timing Belt/ Camshaft question

Post by noev70t5 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:13 pm

what is not shown in the picture is the intake cam has a ziptie where the belt originally started so i know where it should be.

What i want to do is:
- rotate the intake cam proportionate to how the exhaust one moved (a notch or two clockwise)[should eliminate the slack between the cams]
-after, there should be slack created between the intake and crank
-turn the crankshaft until the belt is a bit more fit between the intake and crank
-return the tensioner and let it pick up the last of the slack

does that sound resonable?
2002 s60 Base - 215k - KIA [08-2014]
2000 s70 Base - 170k - Traded in [2015-16]
1998 v70 t5 - 232k - KIA [2016-2018]
2000 s70 Base - 180K KIA [2018-2018]
1995 850 TURBO - 77K [2019-]

Ozark Lee
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Ozark Lee

Re: Quick Timing Belt/ Camshaft question

Post by Ozark Lee » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:26 pm

Just because it was timed one way before doesn't make it correct. About half of the whiteblocks that I have purchased have had the belt off a tooth when I go to change the first belt. They don't run terrible with the timing off but they run better when it is correct.

...Lee
'94 850 N/A 5 speed
'96 Platinum Edition Turbo
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1999 V70XC - Nautic Blue - Totaled while parked.
1999 V70XC - RIP - Wrecked Parts Car.
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noev70t5
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Re: Quick Timing Belt/ Camshaft question

Post by noev70t5 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:30 pm

Ozark Lee wrote:Just because it was timed one way before doesn't make it correct. About half of the whiteblocks that I have purchased have had the belt off a tooth when I go to change the first belt. They don't run terrible with the timing off but they run better when it is correct.

...Lee

No doubt Lee, I totally agree. When i get a new belt i want to have it timed properly then.

As of right now for what im doing, is it ok to do what i described in my lastest post?
2002 s60 Base - 215k - KIA [08-2014]
2000 s70 Base - 170k - Traded in [2015-16]
1998 v70 t5 - 232k - KIA [2016-2018]
2000 s70 Base - 180K KIA [2018-2018]
1995 850 TURBO - 77K [2019-]

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erikv11
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erikv11

Re: Quick Timing Belt/ Camshaft question

Post by erikv11 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:58 pm

When the crank is on the mark, both cams can be spun freely in either direction. Well, there is resistance, but there is no risk of damaging anything. Just get a long screwdriver in there between two of the three cam sprocket bolts, and rotate the exhaust cam to exactly where you want it to be. The exhaust cam likes to slip out of place, but just keep putting it back until you can get the belt back on.

Even though you are replacing the belt, attempt to set the timing to factory position, not to where it was. See Lee's comment. Your car's belt will likely do that just fine, or within half a tooth anyway (which is just fine!). If you don't want to eyeball the back of the cams at this time, at least eyeball the lines along the bottom (exhaust) and top (intake) of the triangles formed by the cam sprocket bolts. Each line should be parallel to the engine mating lines, e.g. the line that seals the head to the bock, the cam cover to the head, etc.
'95 854 T5-R, Motronic 4.4, 185k
'96 855 NA, 145k
'98 S70 NA, 220k (living out west)
'98 V70, T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine, 286k
'06 S60 R, 167k
'99 Camry V6 :shock: 125k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k

noev70t5
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noev70t5

Re: Quick Timing Belt/ Camshaft question

Post by noev70t5 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:39 am

I appreciate the help guys as I only had some printouts

my crank was not 100% lined up and I have a very slight bumpy idle (my mom rushed me out the garage)

about to tune it to get it as close as I can to the factory settings

Thanks again! Always great advise
2002 s60 Base - 215k - KIA [08-2014]
2000 s70 Base - 170k - Traded in [2015-16]
1998 v70 t5 - 232k - KIA [2016-2018]
2000 s70 Base - 180K KIA [2018-2018]
1995 850 TURBO - 77K [2019-]

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bmdubya1198
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bmdubya1198

Re: Quick Timing Belt/ Camshaft question

Post by bmdubya1198 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:15 am

It's hard to see, but those cams will line up at the rear as so nicely illustrated by kahl :D . Once it's lined up back there you can loosen the sprocket and slowly turn it to line up with the factory alignment marks on the timing belt cover. It definitely helps to have the cams locked. For something like this you can make your own cam locking tool if you really want to. For me, that's the easiest way to set the timing.
Keep in mind, that is assuming that the cam sprocket was removed at some point. If it is on the camshaft the way it was from the factory, you should be able to turn the sprocket while attached to the camshaft to align it.
2000 V70R Venetian Red/Charcoal M56 Swapped 197k
2003 S60 2.4T Silver/Black 113k
2007 XC90 V8 AWD Sport Titanium Grey/Black 171k
1991 944 Turbo Dark Green/Beige 174k
1992 245 Base White/Beige 249k
2006 BMW 330i
1999 BMW 528i
Sold-
2000 S70 GLT Mystic Silver/Taupe 253k
1993 944 Base Beige/Beige 221k
1998 V70 GLT Black/Beige 199k
1998 S90- Silver/Gray 207k
1995 850 GLT Tropic Green... crushed
2001 S60 2.4T Black/Black 230k
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