98 V79 NA front end vibration (control arms replaced) Topic is solved

Post by **98v70dad** » 13 Sep 2016, 17:36

I've been working on eliminating a vibration problem on the V70 and could really use some diagnosis help. My car has 153,00 miles on it. In the last two years I've replaced the inner and outer tie rods, control rods, struts and strut mounts. All of these parts were lemforder volvo, TRW, etc ...best available. The drivers side cv axle is about a month old (rebuild from axles unlimited) and the passenger side cv axle is an aftermarket part which is about 7 years old (it has about 50,000 miles on it).

I have also replaced the top engine mount bushing (volvo part) and front engine mount within the last two years with parts I bought at the volvo dealer. I have not replace the forward or aft hydraulic mounts or the transmission strut engine mount. Both left and right wheel bearings are original.

Last week I put on newer (non-bent) alloy wheels and new continental true contact tires. After getting the tires balanced twice I still have a vibration issue. The wheels and tires dramatically improved the vibration but I still have the problem but the nature of it has changed. Before the new wheels and tires I had a vibration I could feel in the steering wheel that started at 66 mph and stayed up through over 70 mph. The vibration was much less in the morning temps of 65 F and much more pronounced at 95 F in the afternoon.

Now after the new tires and wheels I don't get much vibration if I accelerate through 65 to 70 mph but the second I stop accelerating the vibration starts, but its much less than what I was getting before the new wheels and tires.. The vibration isn't always repeatable. Most of the time it happens but sometimes it doesn't. Taking my foot abruptly off of the accelerator seems to cause it to flare up immediately. Easing my foot pressure off the accelerator to back off the speed slowly is less likely to cause a vibration issue. Today I noticed that traveling up hill seems to cause a mild vibration at lower speed - not sure about that one, I'll need to see if I can reproduce it.

So, I know this a lot of information, but any ideas about where to start will help and I'd appreciate the help. I guess conventional wisdom is to star at the wheels/tires and work inward toward the engine. Everything that's original that could be replaced is either expensive or a pain to R&R or both.

Summary Suspect parts that aren't new
left and right wheel bearings
fore and aft hydraulic engine mounts
transmission strut engine mount
passenger side cv axle

Post by **misha** » 13 Sep 2016, 18:02

None of those things you mentioned will not produce steering wheel vibration you discribed except axle.

Bad engine mounts can produce vibration but it's different kind of vibration...they can't make steering wheel wobble...bad wheel bearing produce grinding noise....so they are not culprits.

What about pressure in tires...is it in correct range?

I'm still under impression that your tires are NOT properly balanced or they are bad from the factory.

Post by **98v70dad** » 13 Sep 2016, 18:40

They may not be properly balanced. But as I said in the other thread, I have no reason to believe they can do a better job. There is a place I can get a great balance job done but it will cost me an additional $100.00. Many places don't know how to properly balance a tire these days. They rely on the machine and if it's as close as they can get it with the weights they have already put on they stop. It seems that nobody around here knows about marking the heavy spot in the tire and rotating it relative to the wheel so that fewer weights can be used. It's impossible to make someone who doesn't know what theyre doing do a good job. To them mediocrity is the best they can do and it's all they know.w

I also suspect the axle the most. And I mostly suspect the one on the passenger side because it is old. Is there any way to isolate the vibration diagnosis left vs right? It's hard to tell which side it's coming from.

I had the same (slightly less intense) vibration at the same speed with my old wheels and tires and they had just recently been rotated and balanced by a very competent shop. They put the best tires and wheels in the front.

A The vibration feel in the wheel is there but is subtle. The thing that I find most interesting is that it's much worse in the afternoon as compared to morning. That and the fact that if if I'm accerating through the 65 -70 mph range the vibration doesn't happen until I decelerate 70 to 60 mph.

Post by **kahl** » 13 Sep 2016, 20:44

I had a similar vibration issue caused by a worn axle. Like yours it was the right axle. The vibration was always present over 55mph but more pronounced when heavily accelerating above 45 mph. Not trying to catch a zebra by chasing horses but I would first follow misha's advice and ensure those tires are perfectly balanced.
FWIW I got Volvo reman axles from O'Reilys for about $70.00 last summer.

brick_and_motor · Post by **brick_and_motor** » 14 Sep 2016, 02:49

It isn't out of the realm of possibility that you got a bad/out-of-round tire or rim. Try swapping the front wheels and tires to the back and go for a ride. If the vibration moves or changes, your problem is in the wheels/tires. If it's the same, there's a component issue. If it is a tire/wheel issue, have your shop check for radial runout on the wheels and tires.

Also - did you have an alignment done after replacing the tie rods, control arms, shocks/struts, etc?

beigg · Post by **beigg** » 14 Sep 2016, 04:26

I take it you didn't even read what I posted in your tire thread.

Post by **98v70dad** » 14 Sep 2016, 05:15

beigg wrote:I take it you didn't even read what I posted in your tire thread.

Actually, I did read both of your posts. I read everything people post in my threads. In one post you indicated that Pep Boys is a quality shop where you live and in the other you indicated that another shop MIGHT not be willing to service my tires in the future. Neither of those posts really helps me with my vibration problem, though.

Post by **98v70dad** » 14 Sep 2016, 05:23

brick_and_motor wrote:It isn't out of the realm of possibility that you got a bad/out-of-round tire or rim. Try swapping the front wheels and tires to the back and go for a ride. If the vibration moves or changes, your problem is in the wheels/tires. If it's the same, there's a component issue. If it is a tire/wheel issue, have your shop check for radial runout on the wheels and tires.

Also - did you have an alignment done after replacing the tie rods, control arms, shocks/struts, etc?

I plan to swap some tire on Saturday to see if it makes any difference. And, yes, I had an alignment done just a few weeks ago - two days after replacing the tie rods. At the same time I had all of my old wheels/tires balanced, rotated, and even got the bent rims and worst tires put on the back. The vibration didn't change at all after all of that. Further, it didn't go away after I got my new wheels and tires put on and it didn't go away after took it back to the tire shop and had them rebalanced. SO, in total, in the last 6 weeks I have had my tires balanced three times and rotated once by two separate shops and three separate people. To say that its a wheel balance issue at this point is possible but probably unlikely.

Post by **98v70dad** » 14 Sep 2016, 05:32

kahl wrote:I had a similar vibration issue caused by a worn axle. Like yours it was the right axle. The vibration was always present over 55mph but more pronounced when heavily accelerating above 45 mph. Not trying to catch a zebra by chasing horses but I would first follow misha's advice and ensure those tires are perfectly balanced.
FWIW I got Volvo reman axles from O'Reilys for about $70.00 last summer.

Thanks. How would I ensure that the tires are perfectly balanced? They have been balanced and rotated three timesby two separate shops and three separate people. I can get them balanced again but how does a home mechanic make sure the balance job is correct. Its not possible as far as I know. I have a runout gage so I suppose I could check run out to diagnose an out of round tire but in decades of buying tires I've never gotten a bad one and Continentals are excellent quality tires so I wouldn't be quick to suspect a bad tire.

On an 18 year old car there are plenty of other things that can cause vibration issues and wheels/tires is just one of them. Wheels/tires are usually the first thing you look at. I've done that THREE times....still vibrates.

Post by **sleddriver** » 14 Sep 2016, 14:53

OP: I understand your frustration. The sled is now 19yrs old. New tires, lower control arms, struts, spring seats, & bearings, new outer tie rods. Axles are > 10yrs old and not OEM. Replaced by indy before I understood the consequence of that action. Wish I had them back....

I have vibration in my SW, at about the same speed as yours. Mine isn't worse under acceleration. Nor does it go away when I take my foot off the gas. Thus my interest in your issue. It's bugging me as well.

For the time being, lets assume your tires/wheels are OK. Further, let's assume what a recent indy I don't know, told me is at least partially correct. That is my steering rack is "shot/worn out" and therefore he wouldn't do an alignment. Said it would be a waste of money until the rack is replaced.That it WOULD affect my tires over time and he didn't want to be blamed.

My rack was replaced around 80,000mi as it was blowing fluid out. It was replaced with a World-Pac rack, that had been refurb'd by Maval. It began badly leaking years ago. It does have a lifetime warranty and I have verified this. I will be on hook for the labor (~ $350). After reading about AT-205 reseal, I figured "Why not?" Fortunately, my bet paid off, the leaking has indeed stopped......but the rack itself might still be "worn out" mechanically.

I don't feel any mechanical slop while driving. Unfortunately, above said indy didn't offer to call me back to demonstrate his findings. Further, I don't know what his definition of "slop" is. How much movement? Odd though he didn't even remove my steering boots to inspect anything: My blue zip-ties were still in place. Perhaps he didn't need to....but there's already too many unknowns in this problem and not near enough equations to account for them all.

My regular Volvo indy said he probably wanted to sell you a new rack. I thought of replacing mine, but it's a tough job without a lift. Plus I'd have to buy one. Never done a rack before either.

In summary, your front end vibration problems might be due to your rack being loose. Perhaps there are some guides + seals at each end and when these wear out, it not only leaks but allows the rack itself to move up and down inside of the tube it slides in and out of. Obviously SOMETHING is vibrating enough at speed and is loose enough, to travel all the way back to our SWs.

Another Volvo indy said to jack up the front, let the wheels hang, slide under the rack, grab onto each end with a hand and push up & down. There should be no movement. I haven't tried this yet.

Note: I didn't replace my inner tie rods. They didn't rattle when I pushed and pulled on them. They were very loose though and would fall down due to gravity. I've read where some will say if they do fall, they need to be replaced.

I posted an earlier thread about my issue if you'd like to look it up.

Is your SR original? Ever been replaced? Leaking? What's your thinking on what I've written?

PS: Did you get a 4-wheel alignment or just a 2? Do you have a print-out, comparing before/after?

Summary Suspect parts that aren't new
left and right wheel bearings
fore and aft hydraulic engine mounts
transmission strut engine mount
passenger side cv axle

1. Could be wheel bearings....could be. Listen with a stethoscope.
2. Doubtful
3. ""
4. Likely...especially if it gets worse with gas on/gas off. It has a longer torque arm. Carrier bearing could be worn or bolts loose. Hub bolts could be loose.