2002 V70 XC AWD Poor running, rookie, Denver thread

rookiemechanic · Post by **rookiemechanic** » 08 Dec 2016, 22:18

Hello Everyone,
This is my first post in this site. I am glad that Matthews Volvo site exists. It has been very helpful and I could find posts on pretty much any volvo issues. In this post I am describing the issue with my car which I am not able to sucessfully diagnose. I hope to get some answers here from the experts.
Here is a detailed description of the issues I went through and hopefully this will be helpful in tracing the source of the problem :
1. Bought the car from a private seller. When I bought it had a leaky radiator. Fixed the radiator myself. While doing the repair I made sure that all the hoses were put back in place tightly and clamped well.
2. Battery was also dead when I bought the car so I bought a brand new battery.
3. After doing the radiator repair I drove the car in town. The car ran smooth but within 2 miles when I revved the engine it stalled in the middle of the traffic. Turned off the engine and restarted the car and somehow drove it home. I was not able to go above 20 mph and the rpm indicator won't go above 3000 rpm. After that incident the I drove the car couple more times but everytime I try to accelerate the engine would stall.
4. So I took it to a volvo dealership for diagnosis. They showed me the codes (Will posts the codes later since I cannot find it now)and told me that the major problem is a defective throttle body unit alongwith a broken crankshaft sensor bracket is broken and the turbo hoses in wrong places.
5. So I took out the throttle body unit and cleaned the plate with a throttle body cleaner. There was a lot of carbon deposit and may be the plate for that reason the plate not able to move. I did not get a chance to drive the car after I cleaned the throttle body unit to see if my repair worked. The reason for that was because the crankshaft sensor bracket was broken and the car wouldn't run because the crank sensor was not in place.
6. Took it to a different volvo mechanic in town to get the crankshaft sensor installed. I also asked him to read the codes one more time and asked him to do the diagnosis of the problem and if he can find some other problems in the car. After the diagnosis he told me the ignition coils are almost done and needs to be replaced, the REM also needs replacement because the brake lights, fuel tank and rear locks are not working and turbo hoses are not in the right places. So, I got all that done and paid him $1600 for parts and labor. Surprisingly, the codes he showed me did not have any codes for faulty throttle body unit. Therefore, I assumed cleaning the throttle body worked.
7. I drove the car back and it drove fine in town. However, I did not drive it above 60 mph. That very evening the car went to limp mode again while driving in town. Now I am wondering if the throttle body is still defective? However I read some forums and it seems a faulty turbo control valve (TCV) can also cause limp mode. I checked the TCV in my car and it is unable to create vacuum. Check engine light (CEL) came back, yellow arrow light is there from the beginning but there is no ETS light. Since there is no ETS light I wonder if its something else other then ETM/ETA.
8. Is it PNP switch or solenoid issues with transmission (yellow arrow light). I believe both of these could cause limp mode. However I don't know how to test them.
At this point it is getting pretty hard for me to pin down the source. Any expert advice and suggestions would be a life saver. I am not inclined to pay the mechanic anymore for something that won't fix the car. I think it is extremely hard to find a mechanic who is honest now a days.
I am looking forward to any suggestions and advice. I am willing to get dirty and fix it myself even though its frigid cold outside.

Post by **vtl** » 09 Dec 2016, 10:18

Best investment would be to buy Chinese knock off of DiCE and read the car yourself. Volvo has also started to sell refurbished DiCE units for a mere $150 or so, at least in EU region.

ETM is a major point of failure for this model year. Find ETM walk-through chart on Xemodex web site. They can repair it as well.

Post by **precopster** » 09 Dec 2016, 15:15

Coilpacks are not EVER "on the way out" The rubber boots for each coil can be replaced for $10 each (AC Delco on Amazon). Unless they code with P codes relating to their exact cylinder location it's a waste of money replacing all of them them, especially when car has more serious issues that cause limp mode.

Turbo 2002 MY has BOSCH throttle. Only non turbo 2002MY has Magnetti throttle. XeModex doesn't apply. Bosch ETA throttle can be replaced without programming and is cheaper and more reliable than Italian ETM.

Without your own OBDII scanner you won't be able to pinpoint the problem. At the VERY least get a ELM327 and use with a bluetooth device such as Android phone or tablet. You'll need the Torque App.

At the best get hold of a Vida/Dice setup or a good Autel scanner 8xxx series. Vida/Dice will pinpoint other modules if needed.

One of my customers had a TCV code caused by a non genuine MAF. MAF should be genuine Bosch 0280218088 NOT a copy made in China. Shop on Amazon for best deals or FCP Euro

rookiemechanic · Post by **rookiemechanic** » 09 Dec 2016, 20:15

Sorry, I did not know the flag in my profile actually mattered. I live in America and sorry for the confusion as I see the responses more for asian volvo owners. What kind of OBD scanner should I buy for reading volvo codes and is there any booklet with information on what those different codes mean? Also how reliable these scanners are compared to a proprietary volvo scanner, if there's one.
I called the same mechanic today and he said the codes for RPM sensor, thermostat and throttle unit were found. However, he kept asking me about the RPM sensor but did not ask or cared much about the throttle body. When I asked about the code for throttle body he responded by saying that its showing active and he does not think that's the actual problem throwing the car to limp mode. so weird! He was the one who installed the crankshaft sensor bracket with a new crankshaft sensor in the car two weeks ago. Its an aftermarket crank sensor and he wonders if its not working well but he doubts it because if its the problem with sensor itself then there should be problem with starting the car, which is not the case here.

rookiemechanic · Post by **rookiemechanic** » 09 Dec 2016, 20:19

Also, I am surprised he did not see any codes for TCV. I tested the TCV and it was not able to create any vacuum. I have ordered a pierburg TCV off of eBay and I am looking forward to installing it and see for any difference in the car.

rookiemechanic · Post by **rookiemechanic** » 09 Dec 2016, 20:28

precopster wrote:Coilpacks are not EVER "on the way out" The rubber boots for each coil can be replaced for $10 each (AC Delco on Amazon). Unless they code with P codes relating to their exact cylinder location it's a waste of money replacing all of them them, especially when car has more serious issues that cause limp mode.

Turbo 2002 MY has BOSCH throttle. Only non turbo 2002MY has Magnetti throttle. XeModex doesn't apply. Bosch ETA throttle can be replaced without programming and is cheaper and more reliable than Italian ETM.

So you're saying xemodex throttle units won't work in my car and bosch ETA throttle units will be plug and play?

rookiemechanic · Post by **rookiemechanic** » 09 Dec 2016, 20:31

Also how reliable would be a used genuine volvo (bosch) throttle body unit off of ebay? There are some in ebay giving warranty for 6 months and returns accepted. They are cheap and some are saying it won't require any reprogramming.

Post by **abscate** » 10 Dec 2016, 18:05

The TCV does not generate vacuum, it controls boost pressure. They usually don't fail outright, they get weak.

The Bosch ETA is really reliable and seldom needs replacement.

A good AUTEL series scanner, 500 or up, will read Volvo ECM codes. If you have more makes then buy a models to get coverage o all ( my 800 does all my fleet)

Don't trust the scanner to report correct diagnose, take the code, put it into Google with Volvo and research that. It's even smarter to just put it in your thread here and let the experts tell you.

Does an 2002 with Bosch have an ETS light or the SERVICE ENGINE SOON message?n

Post by **precopster** » 10 Dec 2016, 20:25

No ETS light on P2s. They will say "Engine System Service Urgent" with throttle codes. Only difference between Asian/Oceana market Volvos and those for North America were that we got the P2 6 months earlier down under and that we have no evap system on early P2s. Also some varitation on switchable STC via console control near heater.

If I were fault-finding a "new to me" car I would start with new parts or at least parts I personally know were working in their prior life.

I have wasted hundreds of dollars on wasted parts by guessing the diagnosis of someone else's second hand info before I started using my own equipment.

There is also the boost sensor on the way to the throttle on the plastic pipe. This can also greatly reduce performance and cause throttle codes.

Xemodex also had a rebuilt Bosch throttle option so your post is confusing. The troublesome Italian throttle was phased out for turbo models at end of 2001.

If you have a Bosch ETA a replacement doesn't need programming. There is a procedure for first use of a Bosch throttle: switch on ignition leave on for 2 minutes, then switch off and start engine.

rookiemechanic · Post by **rookiemechanic** » 12 Dec 2016, 18:45

Thanks for all the inputs. The mechanic showed me the codes today and it is showing camshaft sensor code. Looks like whoever worked on the car before did not know what they were doing and used silicon glue to put a double gasket on it. So weird. I will get the pictures of the gunk filled camshaft sensor and also the codes tomorrow and post it here. As I mentioned before, the RPM sensor code is still showing but he says it could be because of after market sensor or may be the starter. He hopes to fix it by tomorrow and I will update the info here accordingly. Thanks again.