'02 tranny questions for the veterans

[leapdragon]

Hi all,


Couple questions for those who actually know things about these transmissions for certain.

I finally did a VIDA/DiCE setup. It was not the most fun I've ever had (expected it to take ~1hr to get working, instead it took ~7 and some swearing). I recently did a full trans fluid replacement on my '02 XC and installed an inline magnetic filter. First thing I did with VIDA was reset the fluid counter, clear adaptations, and put it into adaptation mode.

Question #1—adaptation mode

The VIDA instructions for adaptation mode are pretty detailed, and also pretty ambiguous. I could not get any warning light illumination holding at 1,000 RPM, holding at 1,200 RPM, etc. even if I coasted along for half a mile or tried over and over. I finally gave up and just started to drive home...

...And then the warning light lit up like an xmas tree, flash here, flash there... It seemed like *normal driving* was causing it to find the values that it wanted, so I started "normal driving" around and did so for about 90 minutes. I got into some start-stop traffic, got on the highway a couple of times... and it kept illuminating here and there for the full period.

*and* it seems to me that the more I drove it, the better it got. And also that if there was a trouble spot (say, hard downshift from 4-3) then hitting that trouble spot over and over caused it to get better each time.

I was tempted to keep on driving more or less forever, but at some point, I had to go home, so I did. But that brings me to my question—if normal driving works to adapt, then what are those detailed instructions for? And if it gets better and better the more you drive it in adaptation mode, why is adaptation mode not the "normal" mode, and what's the difference between the adaptations I keep hearing it's "always" doing and the adaptations that it does in adaptation mode? And did I do something stupid/wrong/damaging by just driving around for 90 minutes rather than the 1000/1200/1400/1800/2200/etc. etc. instructions?

Question #2—stop neutral

I know that stop neutral is supposed to be something to be rid of. So if I have it, I'd like to be rid of it.

But can anyone give me a definitive way to see, either directly by driving/observing or using VIDA, whether it is actually active on my vehicle?

I've read all kinds of different conflicting information on how stop neutral behaves. I've read that it puts the car in neutral as soon as you let off the accelerator, even at speed. I've read that it puts the car in neutral after two seconds on brake. I've read that it's after 30 seconds on brake. I've read that it re-engages as soon as you let off brake. I've read that it re-engages when you hit the accelerator. I've read that if you have it installed, you will roll backward down a hill after a stop. I've read that you won't because as soon as you let your foot off brake, it will re-engage gear.

Are any of these things true?

And is there any definitive way to tell inside VIDA? I know that to put it into adaptation mode, there is a list of software versions that you are supposed to upgrade *before* enabling adaptation. My software version was not in this list. Does this mean that I don't have stop neutral?

In theory, now that I have VIDA/DiCE up and working, I can buy and install the update myself. But I'd have to re-install VIDA from the download to do this (ugh) and I also don't want to pay for access to a software update that I may already have, plus the expense of buying and connecting a charger (I've read that you shouldn't attempt a VIDA software upgrade without connecting the car to a charger because VIDA software updates fail unless voltage is a perfectly stable 12v—true?)

Can anyone help me to figure out if I have stop neutral? And does anyone know any more about adaptation mode and whether I've done a good job of it or done something I shouldn't have?

Any help on either point appreciated.

[SuperHerman]

Question 1: The procedure proscribed is the fastest approach to get all the settings correct. You really need to find the right spot and time to do it. A dealer cannot let the car out slamming into various gears as the computer learns. It is tough - I had issues until I found the right spot that let me get to the intended learn points.

Question 2: If I recall you can get Vida to tell you what software your tranny has - then look up what is available to see if it is the most current one. Mine had the most current version so I knew I had the update. The latest software is what you want - and usually the dealer is the best place to get it - so if you don't have the latest I would have it upgraded. You can look at dealer web sites that sell parts and poke around until you find software downloads for the transmission. That is what I did.

[JRL]

You don't have stop neutral and if you did it takes new SOFTWARE not an adjustment to get rid of it

[leapdragon]

That's why I'm trying to figure out whether or not I have it.

If I do, I'll buy the software to remove it. But I can't figure out how to tell whether or not I have it, and I'm not all that interested in shelling out if an upgrade isn't even needed (I don't fancy going rounds with the people at the VIDA subscription desk to try to get money back if I can't use the upgrade after buying it).

VIDA tells me that I have TCM software number 08636002A, but:

1) I can't find a table anywhere that tells me if that's early or late or what it might include, and
2) I've seen some posts online from people saying that the presence/absence of stop neutral is not reflected in the TCM version number anyway, as it was a separate patch

Which is why I asked for veteran input—I figure some of the guys that have worked on a lot of these might have a way to establish whether it's there or not, or a link to a table of version numbers somewhere, or a clear read on how hard it is to get a refund if you buy a VIDA 3-day subscription and the software only to find out that you didn't need it after all. :-/

If anyone knows, it would be good to have the real answers, as there's a lot of mixed information out there online.

[SuperHerman]

See: Here under "TCM (Transmission Control Module) software update" :

http://www.freewebs.com/howardsvolvos/d ... #182418485

and follow the link within.

I would collect your VIN and call a Volvo dealer and ask if you have had this service performed. If the car was maintained at the dealership it will be in their records - regardless of dealer. If a third party shop did it this will not work. If the first dealer doesn't help keep trying until you find one that does.

To be honest, I don't recall what I read and how I figured I had the update installed - it was about five years ago. I know that from what VIDA told me I was able to gather I had the latest software installed.

Best approach is to call and ask. Any service done at an authorized Volvo dealer will follow your car (VIN) to any authorized Volvo dealership, at least in the USA (not sure elsewhere).

[leapdragon]

Thanks SuperHerman,

I'll give the local dealership a ring tomorrow and see if they can give me any history, and also see if I can reference my current software version with them. I'm right now operating without a VIDA subscription (using the Chinese option) but will subscribe and install the unpatched version if it turns out I need a software upgrade. I suspect if I actually had a live subscription, I could find out myself, but I don't want to test that theory with real dollars.

Meanwhile, I *did* subscribe to the technical bulletins (only $2.50 for 3 days, useful enough that anyone with a problem should probably do it) and found this in TJ16761. This references a TCM software update and is dated 12/2012:

2002-2006
S60/S80/V70/
XC70/XC90

General Shift Quality
2-3 Flare, especially when cold or after Highway Driving
3-2 Power-On Downshift Quality, after coastdown
Power-On Downshift Response
TCM DTC 002E, 002F
Slip / Flare / Harsh Shifts during the first few accelerations after a cold start. Applies to 2005-2006

2001 S60/V70/
V70XC

A function called ‘Neutral Control’ is present on all 2001 V70 and S60 cars. It is also present on 2002 non-turbo V70 and
S60 cars built before January 2002. When the vehicle comes to a stop, the Transmission Control Module (TCM)
activates Neutral Control. Even though the gear selector is in the Drive position, a Neutral condition is engaged
hydraulically in the transmission. Neutral Control disengages when the brake pedal is released or the throttle is applied.
When the neutral control function is incorrect, there are three symptoms that can be felt in the car:

1. After coming to a complete stop and keeping the brakes applied, a "thump" can be felt in the car. It is felt about 2
seconds after coming to a stop.
2. When releasing the brake there is a harsh or double re-engagement of drive.
3. When idling in 'D' range with the brake applied, the engine speed oscillates (fluctuates).
In addition to these symptoms, some cars may set a DTC 012A or 012B in the TCM; which should be erased before
downloading the software.




From this I gather that I likely do not have stop neutral, as mine is a 2002 V70XC dated March 2002 according to VIDA and it sounds as though only 2001 cars and non-turbo January 2002 cars had it (whereas mine is a March 2002 turbo). I also gather that there *is* a late TCM software update that should make life easier on the tranny ("general shift quality"), so if I don't have it yet, I should probably install it. The only thing to figure out now is whether, at version 08636002A, I have the latest version after all, or in fact still need the latest version.

Regrettably, I can't find anything on volvotechinfo.com that speaks in version numbers. :-/

But the rest of the tech journal library has been illuminating and gives me a list of things to look out for on my '02. Well worth the $2.50 I've paid.

[precopster]

2002 XC70s didn't have stop neutral software especially with your build date.

On my own 2002 XC70 (actually it's the wife's hand me down until my T5 goes back on the road). I just did a full fluid replacement using the Gibbons method (tube inserted in top cooler port) using Penrite Full synthetic fluid which meets the standard and I also reset the fluid counter and the adaptation.

I didn't perform the drive cycle because I read that this is best done after a small bedding-in period for the new fluid and even then only if shifts are poor quality.
Well after about 100kms the transmission shifts very well. At first massive upshift flares and harsh 1-2

The 2-3 flare is gone and I get a slight 3-4 flare but not enough to concern me. 1-2 shifts are tolerable now.

For the past 4 years we have been enduring P0705 codes with a resounding clunk when this occurs. To overcome this we have been resetting the TCM with the Torque App and ELM327. I was just about to sell the car off for parts as it was extremely annoying to say the least. I had already done a valve body rebuild and band clamp replacement in my carport 4 years ago.

I'll report in with the results in a few days of driving however so far it is so silky smooth that I can't complain. I sincerely hope it stays that way.