OE v's Aftermarket - Yet another thread!

[scot850]

I use OE v's aftermarket by choice due to way too many issues with aftermarket parts and do-overs on repairs in a very short time.

However, the likes of FCP Euro (I am a fan) sell what they claim are OEM parts. Now some of them we know are well known like Bosch parts or ATE, but when you read notes like our good friend rspi wrote recently on the short lifespan on the strut seats he fitted, it makes you wonder if OE parts are what they used to be, and I now believe that may be the case as I see references to brands that I am sure were not the OEM when the cars were new.

An example are the spring seats. I may be wrong but I was sure they were made by Sachs/Boge, but recent threads would suggest they may now be made by Rein (a brand I don't use). If they are made bu Rein that may explain the quality drop?

However, there are other brands like the spring bearing plates for the front P80 struts. FCP list INA as the OEM. I was not sure, but a set I pulled from a set of old struts have the OE info in exactly the same positions on the bearing as the ones shown on FCP website for the INA parts, less the Volvo name. The manufacturer part numbers are the same. I am all for OE parts but in a case like that I would rather pay the $50 for INA v's the $150 for Volvo OE (even on clearance OE were $105 from FCP and that is cheaper than Tasca at $130).

The point on all this is that I find the lines ever more blurred between OE and what is claimed as OEM today and that some brands may no longer be the OE supplier. So would we be smarter buying a SACHS XC90 rated spring seat over the OEM part assuming now made by Rein. Are there other parts we should consider in this vein?

Neil.

[wizechatmgr]

Does it mean their "OEM" is the current OEM making the product on newer models, or were they the OEM when the car was assembled? My belief is the OEM declaration has drifted meaning as you suspect.

I also believe there was a company at one point with a brand name of OEM. That confuses things!

With genuine parts my belief is that Volvo's name takes a hit if we/they find out the parts they're selling are less than stellar and they would hopefully monitor and correct issues on a regular basis with their current manufacturing partners. On the other hand, their primary goal is likely to sell cars and provide service. Even their mechanics would likely give them an ear full if the quality dropped significantly as no mechanic I have known enjoys doing the same job over and over.

[oragex]

These parts sites intently make usage of confusing terminology to fool customers into buying low quality brands thinking it's a quality part. Keep in mind that many people buy for the first time and have no clue about brands and durability. Ever read the expression: "OEM quality?". Sorry but I get angry when I see dishonest people. I would ask them by email to tell clearly if the part in cause is "Original Volvo" part. If they say anything else, I'd pass.

As for the similarities, Chinese people make copy of entire cars so making copies of parts at that point..

http://driving.ca/lexus/auto-news/enter ... al-designs

[June]

Since I found car talk on the Internet with all the confusion put forth but aftermarket parts suppliers it is no wonder you guys seem so confused.

Original equipment is just that. For Buick it was AC Delco and for Volvo it is Volvo. If the part has a Volvo part number on it than it is original equipment. To buy a part say Bosh in a Bosh box simply is not a Volvo part. You can argue that it is the same, but I would be suprised if there was not some slight difference. After all I am sure Volvo contracts these companies to build the part to Volvos exact specifications to be installed on the line or boxed for replacement parts in a Volvo labeled package. The idea that the company then could sell the exact part cheaper doesn't sound right to me. Nearly the same part I can believe.

For example in a small overlap frontal collision the factory wheel breaks away from the car to prevent the wheel from coming through the floor and crushing your feet and legs. Put a non Volvo control arm in and the car may not perform as designed in that collision resulting in unnecessary injury. I'm assuming you guys have watched the crash testing on our cars and safety is one of the factors that lead you to Volvo to begin with. I know things like coolant and spark plugs won't affect the crashworthiness but look at the burnt valve data on here and aftermarket coolant is the most common factor among the burnt valve engines or so I recently read on here.

I feel it is a disservice to call any part other than branded Volvo with a Volvo part number on it as OEM. Personally I won't allow something as simple as a oil filter to be installed on my car that didn't come from Volvo. I am sure there are plenty of great oil filters out there that would do, maybe even arguably better by some. The Volvo one really is about the price of a supposed higher quality one at the parts store so why not buy the Volvo one is my thought.

This really is just my point of view on this subject. Install whatever makes you comfortable, also it helps to be able to read on here others experience with the various brands sold online to steer clear of the bummer parts. That's one of great things about MVS. Who wants to replace the same part over and over again! June

[precopster]

I don't really think it's a question of liars or otherwise. The people working at these companies are like you and me and are involved with the daily operations of the business they work for. Very few of them go home to troll the internet and find ways to save money on parts and find the hidden secrets of brand labelling. They get their employee discount on parts and that's enough for them.

OEM suppliers for certain items can change over the years. We all assumed it was Sachs/Boge for spring seats, for example, because that brand matches the shocks and harshness/vibration testing of their shocks would have been a lot easier if they were able to make small adjustments to their rubber compounds by using their own spring seats to come up with an ideal harshness formula.

If Rein is the current OEM it may be a financial decision to change suppliers or a monetary one due to things such as length of payment terms or other more politically motivated reasons. In the corporate world there are often complex decisions made on a daily basis.

Which bow tie to wear on the golf course may be one of them

[scot850]

I hear what you say June, and you have the view I have had for 40+ years on Volvo parts. However, due to several issues with Volvo supplied parts in the last couple of years, I would suggest they don't take the quality aspect as seriously as before. I have bought bolts when re-building the rear of my 2000 ' R' that were clearly wrong for purpose and in some cases down right dangerous if used where supplied for. I have had a part supplied for my 06 XC70 that you have to modify to get it to fit as it is for an XC90 and cannot be used as supplied.

The Volvo company prior to Ford ownership I trusted without hesitation. However, now in the ever more competitive world, I believe they are now cutting corners to reduce costs. They would appear to be changing suppliers but the quality doesn't always follow.

I used to not be happy to spend the price of a OE part, but now I'm getting less convinced they are always worth the price multiple. Is an INA bearing with the same part number different to one supplied to Volvo. Sure there is a chance of that, but in manufacturing it is very expensive to make 2 different parts for the same purpose.

The real issue here, is how do parts hold up in use. We all have used non-Volvo rotors and pads over the years (well maybe not all) but are they better than say Akebono pads or Zimmerman rotors, not sure. I can tell you we went though 3 sets of OE front rotors on our 06 XC70 in 15,000km with all of them warping before the 4th set has been ok for 35,000km. It is clearly a gray area and you do have an excellent point on the suspension parts maybe not working as planned when non-OE parts are used. The question I guess is how many of the parts are really that mission critical?

We also now have to look at the issue that many parts for P80 era Volvos are now becoming obsolete from Volvo, especially the AWD variants. What do we do in that case? Aftermarket may be the only option going forward.

Neil.

[June]

Neil when you say OE pads and rotors you mean out of a Volvo labeled box from the parts department? Last year when my left front break line went bad and the break was stuck on and I had to force the car to move the rest of the trip destroying the factory rotor and the Volvo OEM pads put on by Volvo the pads and rotors had to be replaced. I was in South Florida and used a Dealership down there to replace the system and that was like 25K ago. I have yet to have a issue. Other than the axles which one of the replacement axles had a vibration and we're replaced again free, my experience has been once the replacement Volvo part goes on it's fixed and performs as the factory installed part.

The control arms just popped in mind because I have read on here the cast aluminum? Original used on cars like mine have steel aftermarket replacement. Clearly in the small overlap crash tests the control arm breaks letting the wheel and part of the suspension exit the vehicle safely away from the passenger compartment. I am sure other parts like engine mounts for example are critical in allowing the engine to move properly in a head on collision. Rather than smashing into the firewall crushing the floor. I feel confident that these cars with correct Volvo parts in place will perform predictably in any given collision. Alter the car and who knows?

I mentioned engine mounts as my 1998 S90 engine broke free and slid on its side under the car in the head on collision that totaled the car at three weeks old. Had the mounts not allowed the engine to break free and that straight six engine had come through the floor death or serious injuries undoubtedly would have been the outcome.

Then consider how bad these cars run without Volvo spark plugs for example. How many threads on MVS where some fool insist on using aftermarket plugs and is frustrated because the car is misfiring. Well that puts extra fuel into the converter correct an potentially could damage the converter correct? Maybe not so good for the sensors either. But yet thread after thread some fool will replace half the car rather than buy a set of Volvo plugs to replace the aftermarket units they believe so strong about. Take my S80 at 146K and 14 years delivered as of this December still has all its factory ignition parts but is on it's second set of Dealership installed pluggs. (60K change interval for 2004 S80 T6) That's all coils, sensors, converters, Air sensor, are still factory installed parts that have never failed. My car also gets lots of idle time (unimaginable amount while my children were in school that was two different drop off and pick up times five days a week with at least 30 min of a/c idle time at each school twice a afternoon.) with the a/c on and harsh stop and go traffic here in Jacksonville, Florida which puts extreme heat under that hood. Obviously heat isn't what kills the coils.

I simply have not had problems using the dealership service or parts department parts being not as good as the factory installed part. Volvo seems to me to have got a financial shot in the arm by Geely and look at the new product development. Why would they cheese out on replacement parts suddenly? It does not make sense to me. Also the Chinese tend to look at things in a long term perspective which would make no sense to destroy Volvos reputation for quality by suddenly providing substandard parts. June

[abscate]

The earliest cars in this Forum are reaching 25 years old this year. We are going to have to keep supporting each other actively, every year, with which parts work and which don't to keep these on the road.

I went for ball joint bolts on my 1999 and could only buy them with complete control arms. They didn't have a valid part number for the bolts, or at least the guys at my Volvo dealer didn't. I made up some Hardened hardware for that since my control arms are tight as drums.

Hmmm = motivated me to check Volvo parts Lisle - good part numbers there. Maybe Ill send June to go talk to them...

[June]

The earliest cars in this Forum are reaching 25 years old this year. We are going to have to keep supporting each other actively, every year, with which parts work and which don't to keep these on the road.

I went for ball joint bolts on my 1999 and could only buy them with complete control arms. They didn't have a valid part number for the bolts, or at least the guys at my Volvo dealer didn't. I made up some Hardened hardware for that since my control arms are tight as drums.

Hmmm = motivated me to check Volvo parts Lisle - good part numbers there. Maybe Ill send June to go talk to them...

The original point made by the original post is these online retailers misleading people by calling parts not packaged and sold under Volvo as "OEM". The Original Equipment Manufacturer of a Volvo is Volvo.

I myself went to the big dog who advertises here on MVS to order a few things I was going to try to replace myself and found it too confusing weather a genuine Volvo part or say X brand who supposedly made the part for Volvo actually would be sent. It was just easier to go to the dealership parts counter.

I am very interested in becoming more hands on with my car after all that's why I am here. It is easier, not to mention expected of most ladies just to drive up to service and have them service the car. Probably the same for a young driver who likely knows nothing about the machine they drive and could easily be duped by the misuse of OEM label on non Volvo parts.

I dread the day parts are no longer available for my car. Then aftermarket or rebuilt parts will be it I guess.I'm going to be that crazy lady when I'm 80 driving her 50 year old Volvo with a million miles on her! June

[scot850]

Yes June the rotors and pads were bought and installed by the dealer on the 06 XC70. I paid for one set and the 2 others were covered by warranty thankfully. As our friend abscate points out many of our P80's are nearing 18 years old for the newest and other models (RWD) are even older. OE parts are now becoming harder to find.

When I had to replace the failed sub-frame in the rear of my 2000 V70R, it took 9 months of which more than 5 months were sourcing parts from Volvo classic and around the world. Some parts were just not available like a fuel tank vent tube and a couple of lower rear control arm bushes.

Tried to buy a lower torque rod for a P80 AWD?? Not available even from aftermarket! I have just fitted my stored away new Volvo OE lower torque rod to my 2000 V70R. What to do for the next time I need one? Today I was at PnP and pulled a failed lower torque rod from a 2005 XC70 and will now see if I can get it to mount under the V70 R AWD. If it works we may have a way forward on this part. It may need some slight modification to work. When time allows I will see if the poly-bushes sold for FWD torque rods will fit the AWD version. Not ideal as they are hard but maybe only option going forward.

Tried to buy a retaining clip for a P80 AWD parking brake cable at the rear hub? Un-available. Same part used on many RWD Volvos back to the mid-70's. I found 19 in Australia with the help of Volvo. I have found the part is almost identical to that used on some GM vehicles for 1955-64 and some Dodge trucks from 95-05. The older part is made by an aftermarket company for GM older parts suppliers. They are based in Florida. I tried e-mailing them to see if I could have them make a bunch for me so I can sell them on, but they didn't reply.

I'll keep trying to find solutions as are others, but there are times when only aftermarket is the only choice.

Neil.