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2001 V70 2.4T Limp home mode, rough start and idle w/P0121, ETM Replacement Topic is solved

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prwood
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2001 V70 2.4T Limp home mode, rough start and idle w/P0121, ETM Replacement

Post by prwood »

The saga continues as the weather gets ever colder. Did my work out in the driveway yesterday in snow pants. :x

Got everything hooked back up, turned the engine on, and... it starts, but then immediately goes to a low, rough idle. Different from before I patched the cracked charge air pipe. If I try to put it in drive or reverse, it stalls a few seconds after I put my foot on the gas. At most I've managed to move 5 feet forward or backward in the driveway. If I disconnect the MAF sensor, idle is slightly smoother, but it stalls even quicker when I put my foot on the gas. When idling, I can put my foot on the accelerator and raise the engine's RPMs to around 3000. Double checked all air, vacuum, and electrical connections. Everything is tight.

OBDII Live Data:
- TP is reported as a constant 20%
- MAF is reported as 0.6-0.7 lb/s during smooth idle, 0.4-0.5 during rough idle, and goes up to 0.8-0.9 when pressing the accelerator
- SHRTFT is reported as 0 during idle and 30 when pressing accelerator
- LONGTFT is reported as 0

OBDII Stored Codes:
- P0121 (set immediately on startup)

Questions:
1. Is it possible the MAF sensor is bad? The readings I'm getting from it seem correct, and disconnecting it doesn't really improve things, so I'm inclined to think not.
2. Is it time to fix or replace the throttle? I'm inclined to think yes, based on the following:
a. It would seem that the throttle plate *is* rotating to allow in varying amounts of air, based on the fact that the MAF sensor reading changes as I press and release the accelerator (as far as I know, there's nothing else in the intake system that would change when I press the accelerator...).
b. The throttle position reading is reported as a constant 20%, even though it would seem the throttle is moving based on my observation in a. above.

Throttle fix/replace options:
1. (free) sensor film from precopster
2. $125.00 sensor rebuild kit: https://modulemaster.com/rebuilds/shop/ ... build-kit/
3. $344.99 XeMODeX R&R: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo- ... o-36050563
4. $392.79 Genuine Volvo rebuilt throttle: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo- ... 80-8644347

#1 is tempting but I'm concerned this may not be the only problem with my throttle. Also, I'm not confident that I possess the precision and patience required to replace just the film and not screw anything else up.
#2 may work but again I'm concerned there may be other issues with the throttle.
#3 seems to be a good option due to the level of testing and completeness of the rebuild, plus the fact that it's your original throttle so there are no software issues. On the downside you have to wait for shipping in two directions.
#4 would be nice if I could guarantee it would work with my existing software, but I don't have any way to check my software version before I purchase. Also, this still uses a contact-sensor design, so it would be susceptible to the same issues as the existing throttle, although it would probably take quite a long time for it to reach that point again.

In any case, I'm not super thrilled about having to remove/replace the throttle again. It's a pain in the butt to get at, especially out in the driveway in snowy below-freezing temperatures.

If I could give advice to someone with one of these throttles, it would be to proactively replace it or have it rebuilt *before* you have issues with it, so that you can do it on a schedule of your own choosing. Had I known it would get to this point, I would have done it this summer when I had the intake manifold out to replace the PCV system. The throttle was out of the car literally for *days* not doing anything... it could have been off enjoying some R&R at XeMODeX. 8)
Cars I've owned:
- 2015 to current: 2001 Volvo V70 2.4T; 2004 Honda Odyssey
- 2007 to 2015: 2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon
- 2003 to 2016: 2001 Toyota Corolla LE
- 1999 to 2003: 1994 Toyota Camry LE

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abscate
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Post by abscate »

I think you have the 'default' configuration of motor that the Volvo throttle is software loaded - if you scan Mike's (precopster) posts I think he reports that this combo works without a reload. Vendors will usually cover themselves by telling you a reload is always required.

Sorry - I know that isnt definitive, but I think that is our best understanding at the moment.

I think the MTBF on the Volvo design is about 150k miles. A lot of the angst comes from those who just bought a $1000 luxury car only to find out why the last guy dumped it on them and now they have a $500-1000 bill.

I do think your diagnosis of bad ETM is correct.


Warning - Ive read here that Volvo dealers will not put software on an 'unknown ETM' so don't tell them its new.
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abscate
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Post by abscate »

Yeah, its awful to see 'SPRINT' on a phone

:-)
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Post by precopster »

It looks more and more like the ETM is dead with no throttle flap actuation. I think MAF values change slightly when extra fuel is added by pressing the loud pedal to the oxygen starved cylinders. It creates more vacuum as fuel is introduced.

You COULD remove that pipe to ETM and get a 2nd person to turn on ignition so you can look at that throttle plate in the first 10 seconds after ignition is switched on.

Can your scanner read module firmware numbers? Some of the garage grade scanners can such as Autologic and Snap-On. This would allow you to see the firmware levels.

Yes ask dealer for a reload if you get the Volvo 36050563 and it doesn't match your ECM. Never mention replacement just say it stopped working well.
Current cars VW Transporter 2.5TDI, 2010 XC90 D5 R Design

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prwood
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Post by prwood »

precopster wrote: 14 Dec 2017, 06:38 It looks more and more like the ETM is dead with no throttle flap actuation. I think MAF values change slightly when extra fuel is added by pressing the loud pedal to the oxygen starved cylinders. It creates more vacuum as fuel is introduced.

You COULD remove that pipe to ETM and get a 2nd person to turn on ignition so you can look at that throttle plate in the first 10 seconds after ignition is switched on.

Can your scanner read module firmware numbers? Some of the garage grade scanners can such as Autologic and Snap-On. This would allow you to see the firmware levels.

Yes ask dealer for a reload if you get the Volvo 36050563 and it doesn't match your ECM. Never mention replacement just say it stopped working well.
If I get the replacement module and it doesn't match my software, will the throttle not work at all?
Cars I've owned:
- 2015 to current: 2001 Volvo V70 2.4T; 2004 Honda Odyssey
- 2007 to 2015: 2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon
- 2003 to 2016: 2001 Toyota Corolla LE
- 1999 to 2003: 1994 Toyota Camry LE

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Post by abscate »

Correct. The necessary (and 99% sufficient) test is the 8 second whine test on power up. I think Mike found one out of 200 that passed the whine test and didn't work, all the rest worked

Make sure you have AAA so you can get the dead car to Danvers Volvo (Herb Chambers??)
Empty Nester
A Captain in a Sea of Estrogen
1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 XC90-in-Red
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precopster
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Post by precopster »

Just remember ignition on, check that throttle makes noise then make sure the noise ends after 10secs. There is a secondary click just before the shutdown.

If the whining continues and there is no secondary click at 8-10 second mark after ignition is switched on it may get the car road bound however turbo cars are fussy with firmware. My NA 2000 could drive around (albeit very badly) on any firmware.
Current cars VW Transporter 2.5TDI, 2010 XC90 D5 R Design

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prwood
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Post by prwood »

The ETM is on its way up to XeMODeX for R&R. Fingers crossed that there are no showstoppers!
Cars I've owned:
- 2015 to current: 2001 Volvo V70 2.4T; 2004 Honda Odyssey
- 2007 to 2015: 2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon
- 2003 to 2016: 2001 Toyota Corolla LE
- 1999 to 2003: 1994 Toyota Camry LE

User avatar
prwood
Posts: 689
Joined: 2 October 2015
Year and Model: 2001 V70 2.4T
Location: Salem, Massachusetts, USA
Has thanked: 9 times
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Post by prwood »

Rebuilt ETM is scheduled to arrive tomorrow afternoon, BUT... rain and/or snow are also scheduled to arrive tomorrow afternoon and not leave until the afternoon on Christmas Day, so little chance I'll be installing it until next week unless the weather changes. :x
Cars I've owned:
- 2015 to current: 2001 Volvo V70 2.4T; 2004 Honda Odyssey
- 2007 to 2015: 2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon
- 2003 to 2016: 2001 Toyota Corolla LE
- 1999 to 2003: 1994 Toyota Camry LE

User avatar
abscate
MVS Moderator
Posts: 35273
Joined: 17 February 2013
Year and Model: 99: V70s S70s,05 V70
Location: Port Jefferson Long Island NY
Has thanked: 1498 times
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Post by abscate »

bump for editing, ignore
Empty Nester
A Captain in a Sea of Estrogen
1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 XC90-in-Red
Link to Maintenance record thread

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