98V70 na volvo - appears to have died

[erikv11]

All 98 P80s have the metal type.

[cn90]

You probably have the "Oil O-rings issue" as in this post:

http://casestudies.atlanticmotorcar.com ... p-pick-up/


Volvo S70 – Defective O-Ring Seals on Oil Pump Pick Up
Car presented with engine making a moderately loud tapping noise, and via OBD-II a fault code was found to be stored for the variable engine valve timing solenoid. Upon inspection the technician noted that engine oil pressure warning light wire was disconnected. We connected wire and engine oil pressure warning light came on. A check of engine oil pressure with mechanical gauge showed pressure to be very low at idle, about 5 PSI, gauge is unsteady and flutters. During extended idle the reading will nearly drop to nearly zero at times. The low and unsteady gauge reading indicates possible cavitations in oil pressure.

Volvo has a somewhat common problem of defective oil pump pick up seals. These small rubber sealing rings serve to connect the engine oil pickup, located in the oil pan, to the engine block where the actual oil pump is located. After several years and thousands miles of engine heat, these seals become hardened and allow air to enter into the oil pickup system, preventing the oil pump from drawing the proper amount of oil. Early symptoms are a oil pressure light on at idle, or an engine that sounds unusually loud, often a tapping noise, at idle.

The correction for this involves removing the engine oil pan, cleaning and inspecting the pan sump and pick up tubes. The small rubber o-ring seals are then replaced on both the oil pick up and engine oil cooler. It is important to inspect the sump, and clean any oil sludge or debris from the oil pan area. As the 850 and S/V70 series engines use a two piece crankcase, you can not easily remove the main bearing caps for inspection, nor are the rod bearings readily accessible. The best test of the engine condition after this service is to use the mechanical gage again to verify pressure readings. On the car in question the engine oil pressure went from nearly zero at idle, to 35 PSI warm, and nearly 75 PSI at speed. This pressure in indicative of a engine in good condition, not having experience any wear in the bearing surfaces. Given the exceptionally low oil pressure, it is a testament to the robust design of the Volvo engine that no damage seems to have occurred.

[erikv11]

LOL. It's like the old telephone game ... Yes oil pickup tube seals were considered very early in the thread, and no they are not likely the problem. Read the posts on page one.

[cn90]

Erik,

You are acting like a big professor.
I don't need to read the post on page 1, you should.

What I am saying is bad O-ring "may" be the root cause.

Bad O-ring ---> air sucked in ---> cavitation inside oil pump ---> lack of lubrication ---> oil pressure light is ON ---> Oil Pump destroyed.

[erikv11]

Cam,

Thanks for telling me how I'm acting. And for adding an explanation for your post.

Your pal, Erik

P.S. I already read the thread.

[RickHaleParker]

Bad O-ring ---> air sucked in ---> cavitation inside oil pump ---> lack of lubrication ---> oil pressure light is ON ---> Oil Pump destroyed.

Your theory is plausible.

I more inclined to think the root cause is a micro fracture dating back to the day of manufacture.

[Kazthebassman]

I am sure we all recognize that the possible oil filter gasket/seal is not the cause of this problem but possibly a symptom/collateral damage or coincidence. He only lost a quart of oil.
I don't know the path of all the oil circulation or if this is possible, in with this engine but if the bottom end or filter were being pressurized and not circulating...that seal/gasket could have been the weak point and gave out to pressure but certainly not the cause.

[mrbrian200]

Bad O-ring ---> air sucked in ---> cavitation inside oil pump ---> lack of lubrication ---> oil pressure light is ON ---> Oil Pump destroyed.

Your theory is plausible.

I more inclined to think the root cause is a micro fracture dating back to the day of manufacture.

Who wants to pitch the show "Volvo Disasters" to the Smithsonian Channel?

[Teddy1975]

Well, I'm off work on Friday so I'll get in and see what I can determine then. I've been looking at used engines - at the age of my 98 they go pretty cheap so its possible that doing a swap would be the cheapest/best approach. I don't necessarily want to tackle it but I could. What would be a good estimate of the number of hours it would take a professional mechanic to do it? I'm looking around to see if I can find an independent guy who is interested in doing it.

I just had the engine swapped out in my 850 NA and I paid for 7 hours of labour. They did TB, PCV and swapped over the nearly new waterpump and the new spark plugs, distributor, wiring/sensors from the old engine at the same time.

7-8 hours is a good estimate of an engine swap.

[98v70dad]

I appreciate everyone's comments. From a practical point of view I've concluded from what I've learned here that I need to drop the pan to assess the sludge condition and replace the pick up seals. For everyone else here are facts stated succinctly.

1. on the day of the problem the car hadn't been driven for three weeks. It stays outside so it was cold soaked. Cold in Atlanta isn't that cold but it was was right around freezing and had been for several nights.

2. the problem started after driving about 7 miles. Suburban type stop an go - 50 mph maximum sort of driving.
3 the problem started at the stop light right before the on ramp to the interstate with a flicker of the oil light. It flickered several times and went off. I figured that it was a bad sensor since the car didn't need oil.
4. the flickering light went away at 70 mph for many miles and then came back and eventually after a few minutes stayed on.
5. I had another 17 miles to go and figured that things were getting serious so I decided to pull off at the next good opportunity.
6. I pulled off and on the exit ramp the engine started to miss and run rough. I got into a gas station about a block from the exit and shut it down.
7. I removed the oil cap and it was very hot - a whisp of steam came out. somewhat panicked I added a quart of oil. This was unnecessary because the oil level was fine. On friday when I drained it the level was at the full mark. The car uses about a quart every 3000 miles and was due a change in three days. So the level was probably about halfway between low and full on the day of the problem before I added the quart. I DID NOT lose a quart of oil.
8. I had the car towed home.
9. When I drained the oil on friday i inspected the area and the only leaking occurred at the oil filter seal. I would estimate it as a table spoon or two - very very little on the frame rail. I believe that the leak happened when the metal chunks I found blocked the path of oil flow. So for a while there was good pressure on the pump side - enough to overcome the seal. I had to use a wrench to remove the filter. It was on tight. Not overtight but too tight to get off by hand.
10. I retrieved three pieces of aluminum from the top of the oil filter. two of them were pretty big and they were blocking oil flow. The other was the size of a pea and looks like a ground up piece of aluminum - like it had been in a garbage disposal.

That's where I am. I got annoyed and lazy on Friday after I retrieved the metal hunks and decided to do something else. I'm planning to a) dissect the oil filter and see what it holds. b) filter the removed oil thru a screen and see what that holds c) take a very close look at the hunks that I found in the filter.

Thanks again for the comments ... more to come - but maybe not until after the holidays.