Genuine Volvo ATF is NOT Mobil 3309...
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vtl
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XC70Rider
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After flushing dozens of 3309 ATF during the past year I'm still getting a hard shift from 3 to 4 and even worse from 4 to 5. The first 2 gears shift smoothly.vtl wrote: ↑16 Jan 2017, 20:32 Ok, I've solved my 3 gear imperfection. I had a wastegate actuator shortened by 1 turn. Bought a tool from ARD, returned pressure back to stock 1.8 PSI. After 3 engine starts and maybe 20 miles transmission is fully cured, I drive a 12 years old car with 157k miles on the clock and a perfectly working original transmission.
Here are all the drains and flushes I've done
1. May 2018, AT Sump Drain, Mobil 3309, 3.6 quarts
2. June 2018, AT Sump drain & Gibbons flush, Mobil 3309, 12 quarts
3. October 2018, AT Sump drain, Idemitsu TLS, 3.6 quarts
4. January 2019, AT Sump drain, Idemitsu TLS, 3.6 quarts
5. April 2019, AT Sump drain, Idemitsu TLS, 3.6 quarts
I switched from Mobil to Idemitsu TLS because several members noticed better performance using it and FCP lists it OE compatible with Volvo ATF. I talked with FCP today and they claimed it's not Genuine Volvo ATF. Just a 3309 ATF.
All I see left is to either switch to Genuine Volvo ATF, clean or replace the B4 solenoid, or adjust the wastegate actuator rod.
What ARD tool did you use to adjust the rod? IPD no longer sells their wastegate tool. I could make my own using a low PSI regulator off my paint gun. I'll connect long hoses from the turbo solenoid to the regulator placed inside the cabin. Still cannot find that firewall opening behind the strut tower.
Last edited by XC70Rider on 30 Apr 2019, 13:10, edited 1 time in total.
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vtl
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IIRC I returned that wastegate setting back to a higher pressure, 'cause car was not accelerating fast enough for me. Then I flashed Hilton Stage 1, and recently replaced the whole turbo with a new one.
My transmission is at 204k miles now and I think it's near the end, it produces some very strange oscillating noise. I think it's either a torque converter or a severe bearing slack. Anyway, I'm going to replace the transmission this year: it was bogging my since the time I got the car, new Sonnax valve body did not fix the issue(s).
What I can recommend is gradually adding Lubegard HFM up to 2-4 oz, 1 oz a day, doing adaptation every morning while the transmission is cold. For non-OE ATF you may need to add more that 4 oz of friction modifier. I filled it up with a fresh OE ATF and 4 oz of HFM. Shifts better than just with 1161640.
My transmission is at 204k miles now and I think it's near the end, it produces some very strange oscillating noise. I think it's either a torque converter or a severe bearing slack. Anyway, I'm going to replace the transmission this year: it was bogging my since the time I got the car, new Sonnax valve body did not fix the issue(s).
What I can recommend is gradually adding Lubegard HFM up to 2-4 oz, 1 oz a day, doing adaptation every morning while the transmission is cold. For non-OE ATF you may need to add more that 4 oz of friction modifier. I filled it up with a fresh OE ATF and 4 oz of HFM. Shifts better than just with 1161640.
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XC70Rider
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During the drains I did in October 2018 and January 2019 I added BG Quickclean into the warm engine and manually shifted through all gears before the drain. I then added in the full 11oz of BG ATC Plus during those fills but it made no difference.
I could try the Lubeguard HFM. I might also order 4 liters of Genunie Volvo ATF as it has dropped in price to only $58.
If the wastegate rod is out of spec would I only feel a difference in the 3rd gear when the turbo engages?
I could try the Lubeguard HFM. I might also order 4 liters of Genunie Volvo ATF as it has dropped in price to only $58.
If the wastegate rod is out of spec would I only feel a difference in the 3rd gear when the turbo engages?
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vtl
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3d gear (2-3, 3-4 and backwards) is often a wear in B4 band that can only be compensated by a longer B4 servo rod. Some people weld a bulge on the rod and grind it to have the rod 0.5-1 mm longer.
High-mileage transmissions have an increased travel in all friction packs, that can not be really compensated without rebuilding the transmission. Friction modifiers help to some degree.
High-mileage transmissions have an increased travel in all friction packs, that can not be really compensated without rebuilding the transmission. Friction modifiers help to some degree.
- oragex
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Whether the Mobil 3309 or the Toyota Type IV are the exact same formula as the Genuine Volvo fluid for the AW55-50SN and AW55-51SN Aisin transmissions (actual name is AF33 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisin_AF33_transmission ) is a heated debate. Yes, both meet the JWS 3309 spec, but this spec is only one of the several characteristics of a transmission fluid.
One thing that seems conclusive is that the Genuine Volvo fluid would be made by Mobil. Now, does that mean Mobil 3309 and Volvo Genuine fluids are exactly the same ? Absolutely not. I've pulled the spec sheets of several of these fluids, and every single one had different parameters, from viscosity at temperature to other more technical fluid variables. Can't remember where is that post but it was pretty conclusive.
Same with the shock absorbers, yes, the genuine ones are made by Sachs, but from the feedback on forums, there is not a single Sachs aftermarket shock absorber that performs exactly as a genuine Volvo part. The reason is simple: a company such as Sachs or Mobil can adjust a product to bring it to very precise specifications required by their customer (in this case, Volvo), but that may cause the product to be more expensive, so what they sell as aftermarket may not have the exact same characteristics.
As for the fluid, if money wouldn't be a problem, I would choose genuine Volvo one to flush a healthy transmission. But then, as mentioned above, the fluid is far from being the only part of the equation: a worn out transmission or a valve body with stuck solenoids will still behave even with fresh genuine Volvo fluid. So on a transmission with issues, I wouldn't spend money on genuine fluid, and get some Mobil, Toyota
One thing that seems conclusive is that the Genuine Volvo fluid would be made by Mobil. Now, does that mean Mobil 3309 and Volvo Genuine fluids are exactly the same ? Absolutely not. I've pulled the spec sheets of several of these fluids, and every single one had different parameters, from viscosity at temperature to other more technical fluid variables. Can't remember where is that post but it was pretty conclusive.
Same with the shock absorbers, yes, the genuine ones are made by Sachs, but from the feedback on forums, there is not a single Sachs aftermarket shock absorber that performs exactly as a genuine Volvo part. The reason is simple: a company such as Sachs or Mobil can adjust a product to bring it to very precise specifications required by their customer (in this case, Volvo), but that may cause the product to be more expensive, so what they sell as aftermarket may not have the exact same characteristics.
As for the fluid, if money wouldn't be a problem, I would choose genuine Volvo one to flush a healthy transmission. But then, as mentioned above, the fluid is far from being the only part of the equation: a worn out transmission or a valve body with stuck solenoids will still behave even with fresh genuine Volvo fluid. So on a transmission with issues, I wouldn't spend money on genuine fluid, and get some Mobil, Toyota
Last edited by oragex on 30 Apr 2019, 11:08, edited 1 time in total.
Several Volvo Repair Videos https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... s0FSVSOT_c
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vtl
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Aisin 0T4 is way too thin, worse than Mobil 3309, avoid it. Harsh shifts is what you'll get immediately. Better stick with Idemitsu Type-TLS, in my experience this is the closest match to OE.
- oragex
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Thanks vtl, I'm going to edit it out from my post https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo- ... -1161540kt
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Several Volvo Repair Videos https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... s0FSVSOT_c
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XC70Rider
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Another factor I forgot to include is it appears to be flaring twice while in 4th gear. While shifting from 3rd to 4th I get a 300rpm drop then a 500rpm drop while still in 4th. When it finally reaches 5th gear at ~45mph it does another 500rpm drop.
To know what gear it's in I closely watch the RPM needle. I also quickly shift the stick into geartronic to see the gear displayed on the dash. Is the display giving the actually gear reading straight from the TCM? If it is correct then I'm getting two flares while in 4th gear. Makes it feel like the AT has 6 gears.
With the high gears causing a delay I'm going to check the wastegate rod. I'm now searching for a hole in the firewall where I can slide the hoses through.
To know what gear it's in I closely watch the RPM needle. I also quickly shift the stick into geartronic to see the gear displayed on the dash. Is the display giving the actually gear reading straight from the TCM? If it is correct then I'm getting two flares while in 4th gear. Makes it feel like the AT has 6 gears.
With the high gears causing a delay I'm going to check the wastegate rod. I'm now searching for a hole in the firewall where I can slide the hoses through.
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