ICE vs. EV Poll

[93Regina]

Its going to stay in the realm of short urban commutes only - which limits market penetration significantly.

I've researched briefly, but electrical codes have been considered/revised, along with tech to eliminate plug-n-play charging. Of course, power-grid could not currently handle a massive switch to EVs
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GM is building an EV battery factory with LG Chem in Lordstown, Ohio

General Motors announced today that it was setting up a joint venture
with South Korea’s LG Chem to mass-produce batteries for electric
cars. The two companies plan to invest a total of $2.3 billion to
build a new facility, which will be located in Lordstown, Ohio.

The new plant will essentially become GM’s own Gigafactory, with an
annual capacity of more than 30 gigawatt hours. The facility will
manufacture battery cells for the 20 new electric vehicles that GM
plans to roll out by 2023, executives said. That includes a new EV
from Chevy that is set to be released next year and a battery-electric
pickup truck by late 2021.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/5/2099 ... -lordstown

[Rattnalle]

The powergrid is going to be a challenge I agree. Though not an impossible one according to the calculations I've seen for the situation here in Sweden compared to the total power use for everything else.

[93Regina]

The powergrid is going to be a challenge I agree.

In US, the "road tax man" in each state could affect EV sales.

More States Hitting Electric Vehicle Owners With High Fees, a Consumer Reports Analysis Shows
Some states passing EV fees far in excess of what average motorists pay in gas taxes

Gasoline taxes were never fair to all motorists since fuel mileage varies, along with differences where people travel, but these states are doing flat rate taxing.

Some years ago, State of Oregon did a pilot test for EVs, as based upon actual miles driven...."Oregon, where a pilot program asks participants to pay 1.7 cents per mile in lieu of paying a gas tax..."

On another note, Jun 26, 2017 Oregon’s Pay-Per-Mile Driving Fees: Ready for Prime Time, But Waiting for Approval

[93Regina]

The powergrid

Is America’s Power Grid Ready for Electric Cars?
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The U.S. electric grid has continually evolved to accommodate new demands throughout the last century. But if the nation’s vehicles were to rapidly become electric, the grid would need to change faster. Depending on local driving habits and the grid infrastructure that’s already in place, our analysis shows that EVs will have different impacts in different regions.
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Based on our estimates, the charging requirements for a fully electrified fleet of personal cars in Texas would be about 290 gigawatt-hours per day, less than the available surplus of generation capacity. In other words, the Texas grid could theoretically charge a fully electrified vehicle fleet today if vehicles were charged during off-peak hours.

When we did the same analysis for California, however, we found that if EVs become the norm, it could push the total demand for electricity beyond the existing capacity of the Golden State’s grid.

[93Regina]

Even 15 minute charge times will be too long, and those won't be feasible for decades.

Most people can fill their daily driving needs on an overnight charge. If they do need to charge in public, DC fast chargers provide up to 70 miles of range in just 20 minutes. Level 2 chargers deliver a charge of 10 to 60 miles of range per hour. But most drivers treat charging their car like they do their mobile phone — a bit at a time when it works into their schedule.
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The Faster, Cheaper, Better Way to Charge Electric Vehicles

Opinion: Forget fast-charging. Battery swapping is back—and it's the tech of the future.
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Tesla swapped out two EV batteries in the time it took to fill an Audi's tank with gas. Today, a company called BattSwap says it can change out a battery in less than a minute. “It requires no user interaction," says Bert Robbens, BattSwap's Chief Technical Officer. "You can do the swap from within your vehicle.” And swapping a 500-mile EV battery won’t necessarily take longer than one with a 100-mile range.

[93Regina]

[93Regina]

Even 15 minute charge times will be too long...

Swap in. Swap out.
Zero Motorcycles is the first electric motorcycle manufacturer to feature available hot-swappable modules. This optional system allows the Zero FX and Zero FXS to be ridden using either one or two Z-Force® modules. A module can be added or removed in less than a minute. Charging can be done via the motorcycle’s standard on-board charger or by using optional off-board charging accessories.

[93Regina]

FWIW - Formula E Wants Their Gen3 Cars To Have Charging Pit Stops Under 30 Seconds


Back in October, we wrote about Formula E’s intention to reintroduce pit stops to the series’ races. Unlike the initial battery swap stops, however, these new ones would involve actually re-charging the battery. Now, FIA documents reveal that these stops would ideally remain under 30 seconds, and it’s inviting manufacturers to submit design proposals.
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But the really interesting stuff here comes in the form of the battery that will be utilized for the Gen3 car. The document explains that pit stops will once again become a feature of FE races, but this time with fast-charging batteries. The goal is to have a battery that can be fully recharged in 45 minutes—or, enough time to recharge between race day sessions—with a fast-charging option that can provide more power within 30 seconds.

[befarrer]

I am up in Canada, and EV's make up less than 1% of the cars here, including Prius'es and that type. The big issue up here is the cold. Batteries loose their output capacity as the temperature gets colder, which reduces range, add on top of that a need for a heater to clear the windows, and that takes alot of power. I think Tesla cars up here when it is an average winter day up here like today have less than half of their range due to these factors.

Also, has anybody done a calculation on how much emissions from the power plant are released to make enough power to charge an EV? There are no nuclear power plants here, most were coal, but are switching to natural gas, so there's greenhouse gasses made there. I'm wondering if the amount of emissions from a natural gas power plant to charge a Tesla is worse than a brand new car driven the same distance?

[matthew1]

I am up in Canada, and EV's make up less than 1% of the cars here, including Prius'es and that type. The big issue up here is the cold. Batteries loose their output capacity as the temperature gets colder, which reduces range, add on top of that a need for a heater to clear the windows, and that takes alot of power. I think Tesla cars up here when it is an average winter day up here like today have less than half of their range due to these factors.

From what I understand, the batteries are designed for optimal use at 72°F. Abscate can tell you what Kelvin that is.

Higher or lower and efficiency drops, especially lower. We see this at work with normal car batteries, or phones, if we use them outside in cold weather. Or anything rechargeable really.

So Canada is not the ideal EV region, no.

Also, has anybody done a calculation on how much emissions from the power plant are released to make enough power to charge an EV? There are no nuclear power plants here, most were coal, but are switching to natural gas, so there's greenhouse gasses made there. I'm wondering if the amount of emissions from a natural gas power plant to charge a Tesla is worse than a brand new car driven the same distance?

This is subject to great debate, and I mean great. My conclusion is that EVs supplied by the world's aggregate power stations are better for the world than the worlds' cars supplied by the world's aggregate gasoline/diesel supply processes.

The problem is density. "Gasoline thus has about 100 times the energy density of a lithium-ion battery."

100x!