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Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather Topic is solved

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MacNoob
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather

Post by MacNoob »

Watching this with great interest. My '07 displays these exact symptoms from your video - but rarely enough that there's no way to reproduce the problem for testing, and the car has never failed to start. Car has 190k kms on it. Due for new plugs at 200k. Had new timing belt/pulleys/serpentine belt - did not affect starting.

* squeaking noise from starter on occasion.

* sometimes starts but doesn't have fast idle (immediately settles to 650 rpm normal idle). Did this today after work - was parked 4 hours at about -10 C.

* sometimes slightly extended crank, fires, continues cranking, then starts. The tach jumps at the first fire - I've noticed it up to about 3000 rpm.

* doesn't appear to be temperature related other than it seems like it happens more often if the engine is semi-warm - like you've parked for several minutes then restarted.
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather

Post by cejones1927 »

MacNoob wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:13 pm Watching this with great interest. My '07 displays these exact symptoms from your video - but rarely enough that there's no way to reproduce the problem for testing, and the car has never failed to start. Car has 190k kms on it. Due for new plugs at 200k. Had new timing belt/pulleys/serpentine belt - did not affect starting.

* squeaking noise from starter on occasion.

* sometimes starts but doesn't have fast idle (immediately settles to 650 rpm normal idle). Did this today after work - was parked 4 hours at about -10 C.

* sometimes slightly extended crank, fires, continues cranking, then starts. The tach jumps at the first fire - I've noticed it up to about 3000 rpm.

* doesn't appear to be temperature related other than it seems like it happens more often if the engine is semi-warm - like you've parked for several minutes then restarted.
Yeah, those are definitely some of the same issues I’m having! The next time I take mine in for service, I’ll be sure to mention the suggestions discussed in this thread and update it accordingly. I’d love to get to the bottom of this and hopefully help some people along the way (such as yourself).
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather

Post by abscate »

I had a miss at load that turned into a slight change in starting, then hard no start. Next day, started fine

Slapped the fuel gauge on, oscillating between 40-50 psi. Removed and cleaned PEM. 55 psi steady. Put cleaned PEM back in, replaced PEM 2 weeks later with new from FCP.
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather

Post by cejones1927 »

My shop finally got a code for the starter. So that’s been replaced and so far, it’s been starting like a dream! I’ll be sure to drop back in after about a month or so of cold weather driving. The overnight low where I live should reach the single digits within the next week. So that will definitely be the true test.
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather

Post by abscate »

My shop finally got a code for the starter.
Did you get the actual readout or is that just the description they used?
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather

Post by mrbrian200 »

One of the theories I think I floated was a bad winding in the starter making so much EM that it's interfering with the hall effect crank sensor. If your no start/long crank goes away and stays away with the new starter we might have this thing solved. As it is, seems every time temps go sub-arctic somebody new pops up with the issue, which up to this point there hasn't been a clear solution.

I never bought into VCC's TSB/conclusion that the orientation of the sensor pigtail wires to be the issue. Seems more like a band aid to isolate another problem originating somewhere else.

As temperatures plummet the copper windings become more conductive/draw higher currents. As you operate the starter the windings heat up, which raises resistance, lowers current draw and thus unwanted EM levels would also lower -- below the threshold where it's interfering with the nearby crank sensor. Makes perfect sense. I wish we could prove this more scientifically rather than relying on anecdotal evidence and conjecture.

Did you trade in your old starter or do you still have it/maybe can get it back? We'd need somebody with RF/EM test equipment more along the lines of what might be used to measure radio/cell radiation-interference and a magnetometer. And a known good starter to compare. Aside from a known good starter on my S60, which I'd rather leave where it is, I have none of that.
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather

Post by mrbrian200 »

Cejones1927 - update on this? Have you had any problems? I'm in the Chicago area, I see the current weather forecasts showing the deep freeze/extreme cold weather set to take hold in the next few days extends down through your area. I'd love to know whether or not you make it through the next week without a starting issue.
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather

Post by thomascushman »

Hello,

Winter here in California and I'm up in 6000 feet with snow and cold. I have the same problem and looking for a solution. The one that makes the most sense is the clogged fuel intake and the cold making that car draw more fuel to start and having the issue. Going to use somefuel cleaner and see whats up with that.

I also read elsewhere on the site that some dude use 91 instead of 89 and the problem went away.

I will add and Im embarrassed to say it but the air intake cracked and I epoxy'd it back together some time ago. It always chugged after that crafty fix - one or two extra times in any weather 1st start, but now its quite a while. I know what you wiser guys are going to say, "spend the money, replace the air intake manifold!" and I will! One question though if you think this could be my issue, why much much worse in the winter?

Alright thanks!
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issue with Excessive Cranking During Cold Weather

Post by abscate »

Try some starter fluid to see if it suddenly runs. That’s the quick way to isolate fuel from ignition trouble.
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