Engine Fitment Question

callahanoffroad · Post by **callahanoffroad** » 24 Aug 2020, 05:53

Hey friends, just spit balling here so mind my Gonzo Narrative.

Herman is a 95 non turbo 850 with a manual transmission and VVIS. No air pump or EGR.

So Herman has been in need of some new valve stem seals for a bit now. Haven't been driving much lately. I have discussed simply swapping with a lower mileage engine and doing a gasket refresh and seals before install while the engine is out.

What non turbo engines would even be compatible? I'm guessing anything from 93-99. Would any of the newer non turbos from the p2's be compatible? I know you can drill out around the cam mounts to install a dizzy and cam sensor in th newer engines. But I also think the rear motor mount is different and needs to have a different rear lower mount.

I guess technically I could use a turbo motor with none of the turbo bits as well.

The only reason I'm considering this as opposed to a different vehicle is that Herman is 90% restored. New wear and tear parts across every system.

Post by **Chuck W** » 24 Aug 2020, 07:39

Do the later engines have VVT on them for the NA?

I would think any of the "N" engines would be sufficient. There are improvements for the turbo engines with the RN motors, but I don't think anything would be of great benefit or applicable on an NA.

I would stay away from the turbo engines, manly due to the loss in static compression. (10:1 vs 8.5 or 9.0:1). That's a difference you would notice.

callahanoffroad · Post by **callahanoffroad** » 24 Aug 2020, 09:51

Chuck W wrote: ↑24 Aug 2020, 07:39 Do the later engines have VVT on them for the NA?

I would think any of the "N" engines would be sufficient. There are improvements for the turbo engines with the RN motors, but I don't think anything would be of great benefit or applicable on an NA.

I would stay away from the turbo engines, manly due to the loss in static compression. (10:1 vs 8.5 or 9.0:1). That's a difference you would notice.

Looks like from 2000+ the NA engines get intake VVT. I wonder if I could just buy a donor car and retrofit. There's a HPT C70 by me for a couple hundred bucks with only 100k miles on it

Post by **Chuck W** » 24 Aug 2020, 11:01

callahanoffroad wrote: ↑24 Aug 2020, 09:51 Looks like from 2000+ the NA engines get intake VVT. I wonder if I could just buy a donor car and retrofit. There's a HPT C70 by me for a couple hundred bucks with only 100k miles on it

What engine management is on your '95? I know in '96 they got the Motronic M4.4. 99+ would have the ME7. (Again, not clear on the NA models).
Unless you plan on turbo swapping your car, I'd steer clear of that HPT motor. It will be a dog NA, compared to the stock.

You don't have to use the VVT and can just leave it unplugged.

Wiring integration would be the biggest hurdle if you start mixing and matching.

callahanoffroad · Post by **callahanoffroad** » 24 Aug 2020, 12:24

Oh i have the old fashioned Jetronic LH 3.2 hahaha. Yeah if i grabbed that c70 it'd be to make the turbo swappage. Just not sure if ME7 bits can be put into an LH car. I'd be looking at having to replace all the wiring, ecu etc, etc, etc. Not sure if that's ever been done or if the wiring would even be compatible. Or if it would even be worth it. I know I can run the Motronic 4.3 NA engine by swapping out the electronics for the LH parts on the new engine. I'm just looking for the lowest mileage engine possible. Just wanted to see if anyone else had any other fitment ideas. Maybe could get a ME7 NA motor and just put the LH electronics on it. Or maybe its just time for a new car.

Post by **Chuck W** » 24 Aug 2020, 12:58

What year is the C70?

Post by **FLXC90** » 24 Aug 2020, 17:09

Like Chuck says, any N/A up to 98 by just swapping parts. How's Herman compression wise? Maybe just a reworked Head? Then you are looking at 93-95 N/A for port design, or up to 98 if you sacrifice VVIS, or allow port mismatch

greg850r · Post by **greg850r** » 24 Aug 2020, 17:37

I recently parted a 96 N/A wagon for the 5 speed. You're welcome to the head or the whole motor if you want it. Easy get, the body is gone and it's sitting on the subframe outside my shop door where the air line will reach. I drove it here, but it didn't run all that well. Condition-wise it's a rebuilder in my opinion, but hey, the price is right.

Post by **erikv11** » 24 Aug 2020, 17:42

Grab the free head, rebuild it (personally I'd get it rebuilt but yes that costs money), swap them out.

As much as I prefer engine swaps the head swap is probably the only way out of the bad valves stem seals situation. Unless you do them in-car on your present engine of course. The bottom end should go to 300k no problem.

callahanoffroad · Post by **callahanoffroad** » 24 Aug 2020, 18:55

Chuck W wrote: ↑24 Aug 2020, 12:58 What year is the C70?

It's a 2000.